Survival, Pride and the Cost of Being a Man

0:00 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Kickback. I am your host, The Dude. I want to start off by saying I apologize to everyone from last week. It was human error, charging to my heart, not my head. It was human error, running around, doing things, and just forgot. I had so much going on that I forgot that I had a show. So I apologize, and I hope everyone forgives me, but we're back. We're here. Great conversation with some great men. Welcome to the kickback. With that, as long as they can get online and play their one-man shooter game and, you know, go drive Uber or Lyft, DoorDash, and make a little cash, it's a whole different mindset with this generation.

0:53 He hit what I've been seeing since the 4th of July. Y'all are not built I mean we were sponges growing up we sucked up everything around us we learned how to shop how to wash our clothes, how to we were sponges we wanted to learn everything involved going on around, us how to change a tire how to check my oil, We want to learn all of this. This is what we wanted. We wanted it because I did this a couple of weeks ago. Tires to us meant freedom. Whether it was bike tires, skateboard tires, it don't really matter. As long as it was a wheel, it meant freedom.

1:34 Yep, exactly. And a lot of these kids, they don't even want to get a driver's license. It's been like years, though. Like they're years that they didn't drive. What he's like where his parents went wrong. Wrong somewhere because like a lot of these they feel sure because i'm your child i'm entitled I don't have to do nothing extra.

2:17 I don't have to do nothing more than what I need to do. You're supposed to give it to me. How do we get to that? How do we get to a place where because we carry the same last name, you're supposed to give me whatever I want? That didn't happen in my household. I taught my son and my daughter, you got to get out here and work for it. I mean, I never had a pair of Jordans. I don't want a pair of Jordans. I'm not a Jordan kind of guy, but I, but if they wanted it, I said, okay, son, here's 60 bucks. I know 60 bucks is not going to buy you a pair of Jordans, but you get out there and hustle and make whatever you need to get your Jordans. That's how you get it. But I'm, my limit is 60 bucks.

3:00 You can get you a good pair of Nikes for 60 bucks and wear them to school. You won't get joke because they're Nikes, but I'm not buying you Jordans. Right. Right. You got to work for something. If you want it, You're going to have to work for it, but I'm not just giving you what you want. I get what you need. I've been doing these social experiments and I told my brother that I'm going to try this social experiment with these school clothes. I'm just going to put the 300 on your card and just whatever store you want to go to. I will take you from store to store. Let's see what you come up with. But you got to have five pair of pants, five shirts.

3:43 Now, how have you can't go past your budget. Right. Whatever else you mix in there, that's on you. This is your budget. Well, you're a good one because I wish I'd had you when I was coming up because I'd have made out like a bandit. I wish I'd have had you when I was coming up too because I'd have sure made out like one too. I think we all wish we had a version of the man that we are when we were boys. Exactly. Wish we had that. And I think that's the reason why our children are the way they are is because the version of us that we are, we wish we had as a parent.

4:24 And so I'm not saying that we were wrong or they were wrong. Our parents were simply in a different, not talking like this, I said our parents was in a different version of survival mode than we are. Everybody's in survival mode, but it looks different to everybody. It looks totally different to everybody. Everybody's version of survival mode looks different whether it's i'm saving money or disciplining this way or i'm living this way everybody's version of survival looks different. But at the same hand even with all those different versions of survival we're still coming out with the same resorts with our children.

5:12 Not everybody's children are like this, but the vast majority of the children have this mindset. It's like, I was talking to one of my co-workers today and she was saying her 17, 18-year-old son, he's about to graduate this year. And I think she said, he's my neuro divergent son. He's... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, brother, because I missed it. Say that one more time for me. Yo, her what? Neurodivergent. I think it's what she said neurodivergent yeah but what she described was she said, he'll she will hear him in his room playing video games talking to the people on the video game but when she calls him out of the room she can barely get him to say anything, and so now he's a senior in high school and he has friends that want to hang out with him and one of his friends has got a car and his friend showed up to the house and was like hey let's go hang out blah blah blah blah blah, and he came out was like you gonna send me out into the world with these people, i don't want to go out into this world she was like listen you're getting out of this house today you finna go out with your friends you're not gonna send him here on this video your friend is here to pick you up she said i vetted the little boy you know asking him questions talk to him whatever, but she was like and he's a he's a good boy i know his mama blah blah blah blah, and so i know my son will be okay and i had to i had to make my son go with

6:47 his friends and hang out hmm. I don't even know what to say with all that. I don't even know what to say about all of that. And it's not that I'm against it. I'm not against being at home, playing the game, this, thing, whatever. But at some point in time in your life, you've got to have some social, some face-to-face interaction. Not just social interaction, face-to-face interaction. Something outside of virtual. Right. See, I've got the opposite of that.

7:29 Right. In my household, I've got the opposite of that. It's always going to do something socialistic, but then don't want to do what they're supposed to do. Okay. Go ahead, Dave. When we were coming up, we still have, you know, racism has always been a part of this nation. And whether it's a Klan or Jim Crow or whatever. Right. Even in the 70s and 80s, we still had stuff that went on, but we didn't have social media to blast it 24-7. And I know a lot of these young people that have been teenagers coming up to the George Floyd.

8:13 And what was the first little boy with the hoodie? Oh, Trayvon Martin. Yeah, him. Trayvon. So, you know, this stuff has been pumped in front of their face 24-7 through the media and through social media. And I can understand a lot of them being in their shell. We didn't have that. I know it went on, but we didn't have the same access to the information. And a lot of them that have come up with that, and I would say my stepson is one of them, he's just happy being here at the house. He's not he ain't thinking about dating he ain't thinking about marriage he ain't thinking about kids he's just doing him and because of the housing situation in the nation you know.

9:03 It's unless you you unless you really got your stuff together ain't too many 25 26 year olds walking out in the world just buying a house especially here in nashville right uh that's. It ain't too many 25, 26 shows and you can afford to live by themselves just here in Nashville. Exactly. And the reason I said it, because I was 25 when I bought my first house. That was back in Virginia. But that was a long time ago, too. That house cost you what, $32,000? Oh, no. Come on. I'm not that old, bro. It was $125, dude. And now that same house is worth $425,000.

9:44 Man, what you said. What you said. I didn't say the same house as 425. So, yeah, it's just the socioeconomics and the geopolitical atmosphere of our planet right now are so opposite. It's the bizarro world. And we got this orange nutcase in the Oval and all of these punk, spineless senators and congressmen that don't want to do right. They always want to cry foul, but they never want to do right. Rand Paul, you won't be here grilling Anthony Fauci over the COVID stuff that happened six years ago, but you won't address the issue with Turtle Man from your own state being absent from the Senate for 47 days.

10:32 If I took off for 47 days and didn't tell my boss, I wouldn't have a job to come back to. Matter of fact, they done had the FBI, they put an alert out on me and had the FBI hunt me down for being AWOL. Oh, yeah. You're right. when you write your own rules I mean hey what can you say I mean hey if they decided tomorrow that we're going to go and recess. And they do but this cat's been gone without a word for 47 days 6 weeks that's, a vacant seat that's a vacant seat and they're giving Andy Brashear a hard time, they don't want him to fill it with a democrat So they pulling all these stunts out to prevent him from putting the Democrat in.

11:21 Oh, you got to choose from this list of three Republicans. And now you got to have a special election. The state constitution says the governor has the right to fill that seat with whomever he choose. Right. But that's what they can see. It would be great. I think you will be great. That's it. And you know what's even funnier? What's that clown, the MyPillow guy, Andy? No, no. What's his name? Lindell. Mike Lindell. You know this clown's running for governor in the state of Minnesota, and he hasn't been a resident of the state for a year. He left Texas in December of 2025. You got to live in the state a year before you can even run for governor.

12:04 He's running for governor. He's not qualified. But like you said when you got, and that's what kills me and here's where the problem is and I see it every day where I work it, is when you take their rules and use their rules that they gave you against them oh no that's not good but that's the rule that's what's in writing right here that's literally what is wrote out right here in the state constitution. This is what's rolled out here it's in black and white it's been there for years it's been there for decades no no stop vaccinating the kids stop vaccinating the children, vaccines are horrible okay.

12:54 Let's take away the education department department of education let's take that away that seems more You know, and I heard that, too. And the one thing I heard, what was it? Was Monday on the news? Because, you know, I don't watch news, but it comes across my time on my TV and on my phone. That y'all good senator who's running for governor wants to privatize the educational system in the state of Tennessee. You're talking about, uh, what her name is? You're talking about her? Yeah. Marshall Black.

13:34 Wants to privatize the educational system in the state of Tennessee. She said from bell to bell. No. How did a commercial go? No pumping from bell to bell. Let's take phones out of school. You heard what I said. I said it. I stand on it, and I stand in front of her and say the same thing. From there to... No, please. You want to traumatize the school system. But see, what I'm doing is what they're doing. Is you... You're right. When you use what they... What is said and written in front of them, turn left and bring up something else. Yeah.

14:21 That's good. I mean, common sense, how you know common sense ain't coming no more is when you can have an orange turtle stand up in front of you stand up in front of the entire nation entire world and say y'all are the dumbest party in the world and I'm going to lead y'all to oblivion, and you vote for. Him stand up and tell you stupid, And you turn around and say, thank you, sir. Can I have some more? Right. You know how I was going there. Thank you, sir. May I have some more?

15:02 I called you stupid. Told you you were stupid to your face. Not only to your face, but I told the whole world you were stupid. Thank you, sir. Can I have some more, Paul Rich? I told the whole world that you were the easiest party to take over. Uneducated. We called him, too. And not only do I take over, I took over. I want you to clown me now. Clown me. I seen one of the best shirts the other day. And I thought about buying it. As a matter of fact, when we get off this thing, I'm going to go buy it. It says, you're talking about an immigrant, marriage and an immigrant, talking about immigrants. Yeah. But how many people are really going to honestly stand up in front of a group of people and say that? I did.

15:56 I did I would it's true yes yes it is true immigrant, bad to an immigrant talking about immigration, right not in the good sense and not in the good sense no talking about it's bad, immigration is horrible it's horrible, but you're not an immigrant you got kids with an immigrant you gotta keep all your exes are immigrants, yeah that's true, All your exes are immigrants. And you got kids with all of them. Isn't he like a first and second generation immigrant? Second generation.

16:38 That's how close he is. He's so close. He can't count himself. He's a dreamer. Honestly, technically, he's a dreamer. No, I think he was one in America. Is he? That's true. His parents were. Are they nationalized citizens? I think that's why they came here. Was it his grandfather or was it his father? I think it was his grandfather that came here. I'm not sure. Don't quote me on it, but I think he's the second generation. Okay. I almost did something to the Greenville. Because his mama built his empire. Without his mama and him, he wouldn't have nothing. Let me see.

17:24 Is Donald Trump. What? Look at us. Got you. And someone said it a long time ago. What it is is you have a small group of people influencing a mass. Yes. But fear is what drives this country. And I don't understand why we don't get that yet. So Trump's father was born in New York while his mother was born in Scotland. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, as far as his father's concerned, he's a second generation. As far as his mother's concerned, he's a first generation. Right. I'm sure. And what are dreamers?

18:07 But the dreamers of their parents came here illegally, is that, am I right? Yeah. Okay, so did his grandparents come here illegally or illegally? They probably came here through Ellis Island. Yeah, they did. They did come through Ellis Island. his grandparents yeah. But even that whole process was crazy because while they all came from Europe, they didn't open the gates of Ellis Island for everybody. They only opened the gates of Ellis Island. They gave everybody coming through Ellis Island a free pass, but that free pass didn't extend to the rest of the world. Make your mind.

18:47 We all got a story. We all got a story. Some of us know how to to get broke down. Is that my phone? Sounds like somebody's outside and they got some good old crickets in the backyard. I'm going to go inside. That's me. They're not just taking it to go. Watching the lightning bug. Brave, man. I'm surprised the mosquitoes ain't out running in. Nah. The baby was making too much noise earlier. I had to leave. I just got a baby in here. We're in the bottom. We're in the bottom.

19:32 What's the topic of discussion? I started off the conversation talking about being a father and being a man and how we carry all of this burden but we're not celebrating for this. Can you repeat that? I got a bad conversation. I'll say it. Being a man and being a father comes with so much burden why are we not celebrated for it father's dead okay, I Bet your wife got more gifts than you did I bet your wife got more gifts than you did thank you You always do.

20:25 You know what, man? I tell them, you know, hey, me personally, yeah, I can see we ain't celebrated. But yeah, we're the beast of burdens, you know. But that's what I'm saying. We're the beast of burdens. We're the burdened history. You know, we suffer inside of it. But we create victories that everybody can see. I was watching this drill about men have to work for who they are. Women just have to show up because of their beauty. They just think they're, I mean, I don't say they think. It was more like I can't, I'm kind of paraphrasing it here, but it was more like men have to work for who they are, whereas women just are accepted for who they are.

21:13 You know what I mean? Yeah. They don't have to go through the trials and tribulations as, you know, some do, you know, But the majority of them don't. I found it really fascinating. I wish I could find that really fine exactly what it was saying, because it was really interesting how they framed it. But. I believe we brought that on ourselves. There it is. Right? We wanted to get it started. Yeah, come on with it, because I don't co-sign this, but we damn sure did this to ourselves. I'm going to tell you like this, Mark. I will not oppose the thought that you fit to play after.

21:57 So you think you know where I'll hit it? You got a feeling where I've hit it? Oh, I got a feeling where you hit it with it. And I'm going to tell you, I'm going to already say, yes, we did it. We did it. Sure did. I think we did, man. You know what I'm saying? And that's why I don't subscribe to it. You know what I mean? I just can't, man, because I don't want to live my life, man, you know, at the service, you know, you know, just, you know, I don't want it all. I don't want all the weight of everything in a relationship on my shoulders. This is, you know, I'm married somebody for help, not, not, not to carry it along. You know what I mean? So, you know, just, you know, cause I've sat there and watched men, you know, along my journey, you know, watch, watch the man end up in a wheelchair.

22:43 The wife is taking care of him because they didn't went out there and burnt they self out trying to be this man out of the house. I refuse to be that guy. You know, we don't both be in a wheelchair. I don't give a damn. You ain't about to burn me out because I'm trying to do something that's just, you know, it's a lot. Work yourself to death. Yeah. You know, I just, I want a companion. And I think that was Adam and Eve's thing, man. It wasn't no subservient thing. It was a companion, man, not a freaking slave or something like that or, you know, a submissive person.

23:25 Some people, you know, they use his side thing, you know, he got, he made him out of the side to make him equal, not at his foot or at his head, out of the side. You know, I've heard that, you know, but I strongly believe that, you know, he created a companion. If we go on with the theological version, I think he created a companion and not a subservient person to the man. I think that came along you know, with the domination control and, you know, and all the other stuff that I really believe in. But I made a promise for myself that I'm not going to always go in that direction. So I'm just going to say how I feel. But I really do think that we kind of brought it on ourself by, you know, as from a man's standpoint, by, you know, doing that.

24:13 You know, hey, we're, you know, we're this person and you're that person, you know. And now, you know, we're kind of, you know, what they say, the chickens are coming home to roost now. That's it. We did that when we told you to sit down. I got it. Don't worry. I got it. Sit down. I got it. Sit down. I got it. No. No. Don't sit down. Matter of fact, come on with me. Stand next to me. I need help from the gate. You know what I'm saying? I can't. From my perspective, I can't. In the marriage I'm in now. In the marriage I'm in now, being married to a hyper-independent woman.

25:00 That doesn't exist she will not let me, let me I'm not meaning it in a bad way but she will carry all the burden. He broke up and I couldn't hear what you said he said in the hyper relation she will not let him carry all the burden and I I'll co-sign this, but how many I'm not even going to say frogs, how many toes did you kiss to get there oh man, man I drug the swamp you dragged the swamp I never said how many toes what did you ask did you say you drained the, swamp I dragged the swamp I kissed the swamp It's a world.

26:03 You ready to swap the fight and you picked through them as the water level was going down? If I wouldn't have met her, I think I would have drained the swamp and just drunk all the water. You did something they couldn't do in Washington. That's it. I'm telling you. We are all, we've all gotten to relationships that, work for us and work with us. But some of us took a path to get there. Like he said, he drugged the swamp to get there. Oh, he dredged the swamp. Yeah, okay. I've been up and down the Easter Seaboard. Yeah. Up and down the Easter Seaboard.

26:51 Yeah. I think it's what we want in a woman. Because I think what we want I think... I believe that if we're really honest with ourselves, you know, what we see in a woman is not what we're looking for in a woman. You know what I mean? You know, we want this woman to be, you know, you know, I want to be independent. I want her to be, you know, step in when I'm not there and I want, you know, and I want her voice to be heard and da, da, da, da. But we don't really go looking for that woman. You're right. I totally agree. Right. But I agree with your first statement. We really don't want what we're looking for. And a lot of us can't be honest about that.

27:31 A lot of us cannot be honest with ourselves. And I think at the bottom line of all of it, that statement, we can't be honest with ourselves, applies across the board when it comes to a lot of situations. And it's not just a man thing. I think that's a human thing. Because, Mark, I've told you, I see the world similar to the way you see the world. And I have been honest with myself about a lot of things now because I've gotten revelation on the other side of life. And I don't like the way the world looks sometimes. I was having a conversation with my wife tonight and I was I was it's a situation that's happening with me and my ex-wife and I would like that honest conversation with her.

28:23 But I told my wife tonight, I said, if I was to have a real if I really told this woman how I felt about the situation, she'd be ready to fight me. And i was like and i'm like i cannot be honest with her because she cannot take, accountability for her role for what is happening right now, you're not missing all the best stuff man what are you saying i don't know what's going on with, you you are breaking up a little bit heard nothing you said. Yeah, you breaking up a little bit there, brother. Me? I'm breaking up? Yeah. Yep. I don't know why.

29:04 Like that dotted line in the road, man. But I mean, but I agree, and you know what? I always say this. I don't know, and I have to always say this. Mark made me look at something in a different situation, in a different light. And I got to, boy, these last couple of weeks, because that conversation we had about we always be eight steps ahead of everybody. I got to think it to myself. I just sit back and look at the conversation going on in my house and like, y'all just had, you just had a doctor? I thought about that a long time ago. I thought about that so long ago. And then I caught myself.

29:46 Trying to catch the motherfucking up, and I was like, you know what? I can't do that. I can't hit you up to where I'm at. I have to let you catch up on your own. I cannot do it. It's great. It's great. I think that some of us look down the road a little further than others, man. I noticed that when I was driving a car with my wife. My wife you know i i can't be behind trucks because of my military history, so i go around but i guess i look far enough down the road to where i i'm not gonna i you know 99 of the time i'm not gonna get caught behind the truck, but my wife seems to run right up on a truck before she decides to move i'm like did you see the truck she's like no, and and and it's literally she doesn't see further down the road than i do i see the whole road all right look i i i attempt to see the whole road yeah you gotta find, the gaps say again you try to find the gaps you see the holes you see where you can slide in and out it and not just like i'm drunk where i can slide in where to weave in and out you know just to maneuver and and she just, and i think that's the way, my perception is the way she looks at life, man.

31:03 It's just two or three steps in front of her. And it's like, how do. You two years, three years later, when I brought something up, it's like, hey, Mark, what you think of this? I'm like, dude, are you serious, man? I talked to you about that like three years ago. I just heard from a friend. So you weren't hearing me? You know. That's right. I tell my wife that every day. I say, you do not listen to words coming out of my mouth, do you? You do not hear the words coming out of my mouth. She does. But she probably does. Maybe she just doesn't understand what she's trying to convey to her.

31:45 Mm-hmm. Because she can't see that. Some people are solid when they have the foundation up under their foot. We seem to be, like some of the people in the group, seem to be okay living in uncertainty. because it's not really uncertainly to us. It's more like we have found a path, a trajectory, shall we say. We have mapped out a course to get there. So by the time that we bring it to them, they can't see that far down the road. You know what I'm saying? I'm only comfortable with what I'm standing on. And anything past that, you know, it's like, hey, we got this nice house, but you want to do things to it. Well, why?

32:29 Because, you know, what's wrong with what we have now? But you can see better. Do you know what I mean? But they're comfortable standing with what they can see. I totally agree. I totally agree. And that's a challenge, man, when you try to get somebody to see something that you don't see. And that to me is, you know, you're comfortable and it's not uncertainty to us. It's more like we can see where we want to head and we have mapped out a path, you know, on how to get there. You know what I mean? And it's not fortune telling everything like that with all the resources that I have and the knowledge that I have.

33:14 I think we can get here. Right. You know, and they don't you know, some people don't see that, you know, and it's hard to try to convince them when they they're like, man, we're standing on solid ground now. Why are you trying to shift the ground from under me? I see that. I see that every day, not only in my house, I see that every day at work. Like why are you trying to rock this boat this boat is sailing along smoothly right now why are you trying to rock the boat but you can see better. Comfortability people are afraid to step outside of their comfort zone there you go look there it is, sometimes it's not a comfort zone. Well, it is a comfort zone, but it's, it's only what they know.

33:58 They don't, they don't know beyond what they know. They can't see beyond what they only see. Yeah. That's, that's what I, that, that's the whole point, Dave. That's, that's it in a nutshell. You can't, you know, you, you know, people like, you know, people that, that, that, that's talking like me and you, that's where that term comes from. Like some people have, some people are nearsighted. Some people are farsighted. Yeah, well, it's more than that, Dave, I think. You know what I mean? Not saying that that's not true. I'm saying it's a little bit more expansion than that. That's a, you know, a visionary is a person that just can see the truth, but he really doesn't act on it. Okay, the protagonist is kind of a guy. I can't remember if I'm saying this correctly, but, you know, work with me here.

34:43 He's the person that, or she's the person that can map things out. Shepard alone, you know, they have two different things. They, you know, one is just, you know, what my man say, Denzel Washington, he's like, dreams without, what do you say, dreams without action are just that, dreams, and they're bound to lead to nowhere. You know, and that's the vision there. You know, I could see things, but, you know, if I'm not acting, I don't mean anything. Combine those two you know you can see where you want to go and map a path to get there not everybody can do that man true but here again talking about your military career isn't there something in your military training that almost, becomes second nature of of assessing and looking down the road to envision, what possibilities may lie ahead and how you can be prepared for them well yeah they do that.

35:42 Yeah. I mean, they do that. But, you know, some people have that ability and never been in the military. True. True. You know, to be honest with you, Dave, before I joined the military, you know, I... I knew where I, wanted to go. Right. Go ahead. What did he say I was? He was a hustler. But listen, though, on that point, if you read some of the financial, all financial literacy, they talk about the life of a drug dealer versus the life of a corporate man.

36:28 And what they say is A drug dealer has more foresight than most businessmen. But he is a businessman. Right. That's the whole point. That's the whole point. He is a businessman, but he has more foresight than a college educated businessman. Because here's the thing. You have to illegally acquire product. You have to sort out your clientele. And then you have to keep said product hidden so you don't get caught with it and convicted. So you have to mastermind all of these things. You have to acquire it. You have to keep it stocked up.

37:11 It's all these things. And he sees the foreseeable future. Okay, if a customer comes in and it's not a customer that normally comes in, I'm not going to sell to you because I don't know yet. Exactly. You have to maintain a supply chain in a distribution center. Right. Wow. In the same breath of that, you got to maintain inequality, evading the law at the same time of maintaining the supply chain in a distribution center. You got to maintain invading the law in the same breath.

37:55 So that makes you a more capable businessman than a college-educated businessman. Because in college, you play by the rules. You follow the rule book. You find your gray area. You play in that gray area. But when you out here on these streets, it is supply and demand. Who has the best supply? Who can meet my demand? And in the process of all of that, who can help keep me out of jail? True but you know what true you know i i think i think a few things can be true at once and that's definitely true uh from lived experience.

38:36 But i think and and on that same note i mean i mean the legal system still has this checks and balances and it's watchdogs to keep people honest but you know and you know you got some you know some legally you know, sweat sweat sweat I don't want to say sorry. You know, some savvy, you know, people that skirt, you know, the legal law, you know what I mean, or do illegal things, you know, I mean, you know, they get caught too, you know, not against it, but sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don't. I mean, I mean, it can play on both sides of the legal spectrum or the illegal spectrum. But we were talking about both sides. And I think what you were saying, some people just stand, dreamers only get good sleep, but the protagonist the person who follows through.

39:28 But I think a lot of protagonists come from their environment, the way they grew up, how they had to strategically do things and maneuver through life. You know, you had to think five, six, seven steps ahead because you might have not ate. And not everybody might have not ate. Or you knew that your grades weren't good, so you knew you had to figure out how to get in the house, slide your report card on the table so your daddy could sign it. You go in the room, you go take your shower, get in the bed and try to sleep before they get to their report card. See, see, see, that's the wrong strategy. You just take the report card and get the beat down there.

40:09 Because if you sleep and they wake you up and you sleep with a beat down, come on, man. Yeah, buddy. You know what I'm saying? Pre-empt the strike, man. You don't get it over with, man. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to be I don't want to be wet when I'm wet and I don't want to be wet when I'm asleep right I, do not want to get woke up from your dead sleep no you do not you have no defensive shields at all at that point, you are lost your body is trying to figure out what is going on am I dreaming or am I literally getting hit, It's not fun. I mean, I've lived it. It is not fun. That may have been the wrong one.

40:56 That may have been the wrong example. That's the wrong example, man. I got up there. That's the wrong example. Okay. You're talking about a flashback. Who's not? That was a good. One. Okay, so you figure out, okay, today's Friday. Tomorrow Saturday so today while you were at school you figured out you wanted to go see your friend on the other side of town tomorrow so you're thinking five steps ahead on how you're going to be able to convince your mom or dad whoever give you some money and how you're going to get to accept friends on the other side of town you understand I'm saying I'm, feeling what you're I'm picking up what you're putting down man you know, it's crazy man you know that you know I think people you know people of a lesser means growing up inherently grow you know inherently, I don't want to say grow learn these tactics.

41:59 Exactly exactly you have to you know what I'm saying that's what we call we're starting to put a label survival mode, we're in survival mode at a young age we just don't know it But we're being introduced to survival mode. I think that's the biggest thing that a lot of people don't understand, you know, when it comes to this, you know, these tribe, this tribal mentality, you know, you know, one tribe is, is, is, is we're, we're totally aware that, you know, what we, you know, what we're, what we're up against.

42:41 And there's some people just feel that, you know, Hey, we don't have that problem, but they don't recognize that that's, that is a living problem for a set group of people. Well, I don't know if you and you I talked about everybody lives in their own version of survival mode that's a good that's pretty good, that's good are we talking across the entire spectrum now? I'm talking about the entire spectrum on spectrum. That's for water man but you know what with that being said Do you think that, we recognize what the other sides are going through?

43:26 Yes, you have to have a level of honesty within yourself. You have to have a level of honesty within yourself. And like you said, everybody's not ready to be that honest with themselves. And as I say it time and time again, the first lie is told inside of your brain. The first lie, before it even comes out your mouth, the first lie is told inside your brain. And then once it hits your lips you're trying to convince the rest of the world of the lie that you've convinced yourself of, but do you think it's a lie or it's your lived reality no I mean your lived reality is your reality but nine times out of ten okay if I walked up to you and said Mark how are you today, how are you feeling today are you going to tell me the truth or in your mind you're going to come up with an answer see, see I've I've...

44:20 My answer would be do you want the truth or do you want the, you know, just something? You know what I'm saying? Because I know. So I understand what you're asking. You know what I'm saying? Because some people really don't care. They just ask it out of what they call, what's the word? Out of courtesy. Courtesy. They just out of courtesy. Yeah, you know, hey, but they don't really, you know, some people really do care, you know. But, you know, but I do understand, you know, because i would i would ask you you know hey you know because i i've been asked that question how are you doing today i'm like do you really want to know or you just ask not a courtesy, you know and they kept the people off guard right you know what i'm saying because, you know and it's like well you know that's a good question you know because you know, oh my other reply is more like i'm okay because if i if i told you what was wrong would you really care you know what i'm, saying you know because they you know they and i've had honest answers that no i i probably wouldn't you know because i i don't relate you know i you know why, why in your mind why why is it the first thought in your mind that people really don't care about how you feel, because I'm a grown ass man dog you know.

45:41 Hard wine in his DNA then people would not give a fuck about how you feel because he was in the military wine and wine and him I say that because I didn't mean it I mean I did mean it like that, because I've been around the block long enough to know that people are just being courteous when they ask certain things You know what I'm saying? And when people ask me, when I ask them, they're like, do you really want to know? I'm like, yeah. I said, I really want to know. I'm not saying I could change what you're going through if you're going through some things. But, you know, I wouldn't ask if I didn't. I'd just say, hey, you know, I don't know what I would say if, you know, how you doing?

46:24 So I pick my words carefully when I try to, you know, what's up? You know, do you really want to know? because I respond like that to people at times. You know, hey, how you doing today? Do you really want to know? Am I having a shitty day? And have you ever thought about that's a trauma response? What do you mean? No, I haven't. So what do you mean? Do you really care about how I feel? Here's what I'm saying. When you respond with, are you just being courteous or do you really care how I feel? Do you not feel like that's a trauma response? Does someone make you making you feel like the way you feel did not matter.

47:07 I never, I haven't, I don't think I have went there, you know, mentally. It's like, I don't think I went there, you know, because when I asked, when I make that statement, you know, it's just as sincere, well, it's probably more sincere than the question that proceeded. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't know how sincere they really were when they were asking me that. Right. But that's the point. That's the point I'm trying to make. You don't know how sincere that person really is. But your trauma response makes you feel like, hell, don't look at trauma response, man. Because at the time, at the time, I don't feel like it's a trauma response because sometimes I'm not in a traumatic situation. You know what I mean?

47:53 Or something's going on in my life. Everything can be fine. I just want to know if they're asking this out of sincerity or they're just trying to be polite. It does not mean that you... I'm not saying that you're in a trauma... This is what we miss. Saying that you're in a traumatic situation right now. I'm just saying it could have been somebody you really cared about in your life. Your dad... I'm not saying this is truth. I'm just giving some examples. I got you. It could have been your dad. It could have been a teacher. Real sorry. It could have been anybody that told you, man, I don't give a damn about your feelings or they made you feel like they didn't care about your love. OK, OK.

48:39 I've seen the path we headed down now. Oh, it's the world. The world is that the world. No, no, the world. I didn't know because I didn't I wasn't really I was raised here from a child. But my adult years weren't here. You know what I'm saying? So i don't i don't you know i i my parents when they when they asked me what was wrong they were sincere the people that asked me what was wrong i felt at the grown-up they were sincere, you know even even my hood friends you know man you know look mark you okay and shit i'm like nah man just you know and i tell them they're like really man you know we can go do something or whatever the case may be but you know it was like, they were really sincere because i was really sincere with them, you know, hey, dude, what's up with you, man?

49:23 You okay, man? That Timber's going on, man. You know, we talked about it, man. It was... I get what you're saying. So this is where I'm leading down this path is this, and this is what I've been explaining to my wife, because my wife is always talking about, that's a childhood trauma, that's a childhood trauma. You know where most of the traumas I have at 46 come from? Being an adult. Being an adult. Because I've gotten more wounds being an adult male in the world than I ever got being a child. Why do you think it's so hard, being an adult male?

50:03 That's the reason why I'm asking these questions is because for me, I'm trying to get an understanding of why men have such responses to questions like, hey, brother, how are you feeling today? And nothing wrong with your response because I've gotten that a lot of times but we don't think as men, that someone is being truly sincere and they ask that question because I ask that question to men and they look at me and they process the question and a lot of times I get bro I'm okay I'm good, but then later on you come to find out that that brother wasn't actually good in that moment but, his pride or bravado or, whatever the case may be in that moment would not let him open up and be honest that something was going on.

50:56 It could be that on top of, You know, probably it's a big thing. But it could be trust. You know, can I trust letting down my walls to another man? You know what I'm saying? That makes me feel less masculine. That's this masculine thing. You know what I'm saying? Can I trust being vulnerable in front of him and he sees weakness in me? And, man, you know, next thing I know, we, you know, hey, man, you know, old dude, man, he didn't get in his feelings and stuff like that. Me you know you know it could be that as well you know. We this masculinity thing man it's a real thing man in my opinion and it's like, when you when you show vulnerability as a man man other men see you as something else right but i mean well, let me ask you real quick hold your question your question.

51:53 Now that goes back to the original topic talking about fathers. And remember how we were talking about how we got ourselves into this. We got ourselves into this situation because at some point in our lives as quote unquote men, we felt like we couldn't be less masculine. So we had to tell our wives, go sit down and we going to take on all of this stuff. And that's how a lot of us wind up, like you said, Mark, in the wheelchairs, or bedridden or something like that. So doubt. What's your question? Well, you answered part of it. I was going to say, is.

52:37 That empowering? Is that a strength or a weakness? What's that? Holding on to your masculinity. Is that always trying to be masculine? Is that our strength or a weakness? Honestly, I look at it as it could be a strength, but it's also a big weakness because that's what we said. We got ourselves in this situation with that pride and that masculinity trying to say, look, I got it all. I can do it all. I'm going to hold it all. I'm going to put this arm on, and I'm going to strap everything to my back, and I'm going to tote it. I think there's a word we're missing, toxic. It is.

53:22 Masculinity is neither good or bad. It's what we are. We're men. We're testosterone pro. We're estrogen negative. But when we allow our masculinity to become toxic then pride ego all of that has gotten in the way of common sense but they but they i, agree i i agree with with that you know i don't want to say a but because i don't want to i don't want, to i don't want to minimize what you just said because i believe two things can be two at once two or more things you know but with that being have said you know that that's that's, it's it's a good thing but i used word but didn't i'm trying yeah but okay get your thoughts together real quick let me give you all an example of something okay yeah let me give you all an example of something real quick so, me and the wife went on vacation right and she was taping me doing something another and i was just being me and just having a good time and and having fun and just being joe just being joe i'm gonna say Joe, not the dude, because the dude is the host of the show, but Joe is the man that I am. I'm Joe.

54:32 So I was just being me or whatever. She ran into a male friend of hers, and he said, what's up with your husband? The way he was moving is kind of questionable. He a little soft or something. Yeah. You a suspect man yeah he he called me suspect and my wife being my wife defending she said that's just my husband being my husband he's a man he takes care of he takes care of his household he does what he's supposed to do that's just him having fun you see what i mean, about that another man called me suspect, yeah you you see what i'm saying because we have we have created this masculine identity and stuff.

55:15 Anything that strays off of that, man, you know, it comes into question. You know what I mean? There's all of the pronouns flying around today. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to skip over that one. But, uh. If you are the group of people, man, I was trying to go deep in it like, he was sad but he scared him the fact that Joe was uncomfortable being him right, that's what's true it is that Joe was comfortable being him, a lot of people ain't comfortable being on him my father said this something on, 4th of July weekend we spent 4th of July weekend in my bed's house and he said something about because we were out in the store and the woman accidentally said I'm sorry I said ma'am And he said, baby, don't worry about that.

56:11 I'm comfortable with me. I've been a man for 72 years. I know who I am. Don't worry about that. See, see, see, that right there says it all. You can be who you want to be. Fuck the rest of the rest of these motherfuckers. You know what I'm saying? You are who you are. And you ain't trying to figure out. I'm not trying to legitimize myself to another person. I don't get who I am, who, what you think I am, who you think I am. Cause I know who I am. That's right. That comes, cause that's the position I'm like standing in front of today.

56:51 You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to over explain myself. I'm not here to try to change your mind. I'm going to say what I want to say. Whether you agree with it or not, I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just telling you where I am. You know, whether you're there or not, that has no, I was talking to my partner, in the land, and it kind of caught me off guard and under my skin a little bit, because we go back like my hairline, you know what I'm saying? And that's way back, dude, because I'm bald, you know what I'm saying? So, we... He was saying something. I'm like, man, you know, I agree with that. He's like, you know, to be honest, Luke, I can give less than a damn whether you agree with it or not. This is where I'm at. And it caught me off guard because it made me think, you know, it's like he's not asking for my approval whether I agree with him or not.

57:37 Man, he's just saying his position, you know, whether I agree with it or not. It's irrelevant. Right. You know what I'm saying? And when he said that, it kind of caught me off guard. I kind of got a little defensive, you know, it's like, you know, what's up with that? He's like, I'm just, he said, I know, you know, you know, I just have to tell people now because, you know, people feel like they have to agree or disagree with me. And I'm like, I'm not looking for agreement and disagreement. I'm just telling you what's on my mind, you know, and it's hard for a lot of people, you know, to, to come to that understanding, because if you don't agree with them, they think you say they're wrong.

58:20 You know no i'm just saying i i hear what you're saying i understand what you're saying i just disagree you know, but a lot of people it's an interpretation that they hear themselves in their own mental capacity it's like when you say you disagree i just went through this with my brother man i mean it's. I i love my brother to death and we just spent last week and the reason i wasn't on last weekend because we had a family reunion in louisiana my parents owned, my great my my grandparents bought some land and i've never been i the last time i was on it in 68 you know they want to go down there and walk on the land i didn't like walking around are you, why would i want to do that but anyway a little story short we went down there but me and my wife we decided to get a airbnb that would house my brothers and my sister you know and i thought that was going to be a time that we can get together and talk amongst each other, you know what I mean?

59:16 So I get down and I manage to piss all three of them off. But my brother, you know, he, you know, he, if I wouldn't agree with him, then he's trying to convince me. You know, I'm like, dude, I hear what you're saying. I just don't agree. But, you know, most people go into a conversation ready to defend a response and a answer. Right. True. But, you know, I'm looking for meaning. I think I'm at a stage in my life. I think I've always been. But see, you know, see, you didn't go in that conversation ready to defend your conversation. You didn't go in with a rebuttal to whatever happened to say you just went in with straight what you felt, how you felt and this is it, I mean you feel how you feel, I feel how I feel I'm glad we can, come to a situation where we both agree or disagree, we agree with each other that's it, but see that's the way you walk into the conversation, but you you've said this many times on this show, you are an oddity sir, most folks don't walk into conversations like that people go into a room already ready to defend what's going to come out of their mouths, they're ready to defend their positions as soon as they walk in a room because they like the foundation that because when you start asking the tough questions it's not what i'm asked it's not what i'm saying it is what i'm saying.

1:00:41 It's the foundation that they're standing on becomes questionable and people be people go into a room ready to die on that hill yeah, you know tc you know i think the problem with that is that you know the problem that that that because i i i live in ambiguity is that that is that the word you know i'm not. I leave room to grow yeah you know what i'm saying you we don't and i think that that is That is a problem with some people. They box themselves into this one sphere, shall we say, and when that sphere, is interjected with something else that's outside of what's going together, problematic.

1:01:29 You go in, you listen, you heard, then you'll research, you'll go back and look and research, you'll try to make common sense of what they were saying. They are automatically not even listening to what you're saying. The second you said it, and they have made a stance, they have shut you off. Yeah, they're not, you know, and that's my brother. I'm like, you know, and you know, And I have a brother like that That's why I know Because the same that you said it They have shut you off Because they are ready to die on this hill Yes. Sir And the sad part about it is In the whole conversation They know it's wrong, They know it's wrong But I have to defend my Well, I have to defend my position I have to maintain My position on it I cannot wait there I think because if I waiver it's a sign of weakness that is that is right.

1:02:33 There but that's toxic masculinity if being, I'm not just I'm not just talking about men in this in this room I'm talking about people in general I'm, agreeing with you if they back down from a position that is a sign of weakness well I bet I came back down now I'm already here I got to keep going. And I say that. And that's toxic. Yes. And why I say that is, I'm going to say, I'm going to tell you a story. So we were, I was in Fort Lauderdale Mall. Me and my boys were out. It was early morning. I think we were headed to the mall or something. And something happened in the neighborhood that we just so happened to be driving through. We were leaving. That's it. We were leaving the house.

1:03:19 My other old boy lived in this neighborhood. So we and we got pulled over we got pulled over right in front of the police station, And when I say the scene became erratic so fast, because they bounced on the situation so fast. It was so many people there. Even when they figured out that they were wrong, they had to make themselves right because they had already made a big scene. Yeah, I understand that. They couldn't back down. And that's the same way when it comes to a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people, when you walk into a conversation, walk into a room, and just say you're walking into a conference.

1:04:00 If you disagree with what's being said, but the speaker up there is speaking on it, and you may disagree with it, and you bring up a question that. Rebutts what they're saying. Oh, they're going to double down now. Because now you can't, I can't show weakness. I can't back down. And you're not going to bash me in front of all these people. See, see. And hold on. And that's your brother. There wasn't nobody but y'all in the house. But you're not going better for me in front of my brothers and sisters. And see, that's what he said, too. That's exactly what he said, man. You made me feel, I think, you have a problem with, you know, being wrong? Or not even wrong.

1:04:44 You have a problem with a difference of opinion. Yes. You know, it's like. You know, he's like, you're all in your feelings. Okay, who's the oldest you and him? Who's the oldest you and him? Huh? Who's the oldest you and him? Me? Me? That show no, yeah, he show no got a problem with that. My brother ain't going to tell me what to do. You know, he's one of those, the white man has lied to us. And I'm like, I got you, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm rolling with you. You know what I'm saying? But I can't apply. Me personally, things have to work out for me across my entire spectrum of what I believe. You know what I mean? That's just me. It has to apply everywhere to me for it to actually even sit with me.

1:05:34 You know what I'm saying? You know, that's why, because I can defend this or I can defend that in my mind. You know, I could fit, but when you give me, but it has to go across the entire spectrum with me. I mean, black, white, women, you know, men, women, it's got to fit everywhere. You know, and if it doesn't fit everywhere, then I, you know, then I, hey, you know, let's, what do you think about this in this situation? You know, you can't just apply who you are to certain situations. Well, let me back up. I'm not just going to apply what I believe under certain situations. I want to be able to apply.

1:06:15 We had an open conversation in our camp on, what, Tuesday? About this, about something like that situation. About how white people will have done this or this, that, and the other. Other people have other reasons that are putting other people in certain situations. And what was said in that conversation was, well, who do you think will put us there? Now everybody calls. Because I can't come to your house and you cut out the lights and I walk around your house and I kill them. But you can come, you can go to, you can cut off all the lights and still maneuver your house, but I can't. Not my house. Okay. So somebody, so somebody, so we had to put ourselves in that situation.

1:07:00 We had to help them alone, right? Somebody, and they just decided, hey, I'm going to just go cut out the middleman. I'm just going to take anybody. I'm kind of lost here. He's talking about slave trade. He's talking about the slave trade. Okay. So other tribes sold other tribes to the trade. Well... The Europeans just said, forget it. You know what? We just going to cut out the middle, man. We just going to take everybody. Check this out, Bubba. Let me ask you this, man. And this is just hypothetical. You know, down the road, say, say, say Americans. We're all Americans here in the United States, right?

1:07:41 You know, say, say, say, say the black Americans start enslaving the white Americans. Uh-huh. This is a really hypothetical situation, okay? I want to know it. Come on, man. I know that's what I'm using. Okay, 100 years down the road, they're going to say, Americans sold out each other. Yep. You know what I'm saying? You know, because they're grouping us all together. So, in Africa, now, I'm going to just throw something out there. And I'm not saying I'm wrong or right. This is just a theory or what they call it. Theory or whatever the word starts with H, man. Hypothesis. I was trying to get that witch. I'm like, I know the one. I was struggling for a minute. Okay, so here you go.

1:08:30 Okay, you got people that they consider themselves of a nationality that moved to the continent of Africa. Okay? Now, the indigenous people, the people that have resided there for decades, for generations, they've seen these group of people as African, that in Africa, in the continent of Africa, as outsiders. So they just migrated there. So we're going to get rid of these people. These are the people that we're going to turn over to the slave traders. So 10 years, 100 years down the road, Africans have been trading Africans. But from the African standpoint, these weren't true Africans.

1:09:15 Like that's You know what I'm saying? Because... There were people that, I'm not saying this is necessarily true. I'm just something that I used to think about, man. It's like, Africa's a continent, and people migrate to continent. People that look like me and you, you know, because it's funny, because I've been in a lot of places that people that look like me, I'm sitting there literally, in Hungary, in a tent, with a guy that looks just like me, Sartre Morgan. Man, I know this dude. Dude we were talking he's dark-skinned the whole night y'all be playing dominoes and i he's playing dominoes when i walk in the tent and he's talking to stuff, but he speak his Spanish fluently, fluently so i'm like you know what's up you know i'm panamanian, never knew it never knew it i've been talking to this guy, two or three years before we got deployed never knew that you know it didn't even come i just thought he was i i assumed he was like me from the states you know until i actually heard him you know what i'm saying, so when we when we say that africa is was was trading other after africa is a continent and not a country, you know what i'm saying so with a continent of different people in that even though they might look like you don't mean they are like to you.

1:10:43 You got a good point there. You got a good point there. You know, it's weird, man, because if we claim that we're Jews, like a lot of people claim that, you know, we were Jews. Well, Jews got ran out of places, and then they come back to Africa, you know, and maybe the indigenous Africans was like, you know what? You ain't the people like me. True. It's true. That's why I land. That's the way he said it. It's like. Hold on, man. And you ain't me, though, but you're not me. You know what I'm saying? It's crazy. It's my lineage back here.

1:11:25 You just showed up. Yeah. Yeah. We've been here on this ground for generations. You know, you just showed up. And now, no, you ain't one of us. Hey, Slade Trader, come get this dude right here. He ain't one of us. I got you. Very true. It's very true. How does all of this play into masculinity and fatherhood? Bringing us back to, you know you're going to do it anyway. What's the question about masculinity and fatherhood? How do you combine those two? Because we talked about how we have created our own downward spiral as men.

1:12:14 We've become so prideful that we've set our partners down and put on, as Bubba said, I'm going to put on this armor and I'm going to carry everything on my back. I like that shit, don't you? of, yeah. Because, we have let, we took some books from the Bible and really twisted them to fit what we wanted them to fit. There it is, in my opinion. There it is. It's not we like today currently, man.

1:12:58 This is a construct of we made some books read the way we wanted them to read and we read them because my father told me this a long time I mean a long, no people read the Bible so so somebody decided well hey I read it like this right here and this is the way it's supposed to be and convinced some other person that hey, you know what that's right So this is the way we're going to make it. This is how we're going to make it. We're going to put women up on a pedestal.

1:13:38 Put a glass house around and put on there fragile do not break glass, fragile what about the masculine side? And then when somebody breaks that glass, when somebody breaks that glass, then I'm going to stand in front of them and I'm going to protect them. Right. That is. That is. That's how we, what Bubba said is how we loop all of this back together. And I don't think, Mark, we talk about this all the time. You guys have hit on it tonight. You think five or six steps ahead. A lot of people don't think that way. And a lot of people cannot be honest. I'm just roping everything together because we're going to get out of here in about five minutes, but I'm just roping everything together.

1:14:26 We as people have not been, in my opinion, completely honest with ourselves. Some of us have. Mark, like Bubba said, you're an entity, sir. You are entity. I am headed towards the space of being an entity because I can totally understand and feel what you said. Like Bubba said earlier, I'm going to co-sign on everything you said and everything you said tonight, I co-sign with. I didn't disagree with one thing you said tonight. Everything you said was on point. But here's the baseline about all of this. We have been misled as a race of people. And I ain't say no color, a race of people that masculinity defines who we are. It's a part of us.

1:15:13 But like I said, in the example that I gave you, I'm Joe and I'm comfortable being Joe. Just like Bubba said about his daddy. Hey, you can call me. I get called, ma'am. I've been called, ma'am, a couple of times. I'll be talking to some of my female co-workers. They say, girl, you know what I mean? And I'd be like, yep, I know what you mean. But that doesn't mean that I'm gay or anything, but I'm comfortable with who I am. I've been Joe with a penis for 46 years. I know what it's used for and I know what it represents. But toxic, like Dave said, we have gotten to a point of toxic masculinity and the toxic masculinity has been what has been defining us as a people, a gender for years.

1:16:01 Toxic masculinity is what has defined us as a people for years and we need to get away from that. Well, say less, because I got that, you know. And he played. Well, he didn't wrap all that up at one time. I mean, they put a little bow on it. Okay, drop the mic and walk away. Play the music. Ain't nothing else to be saying. Hey, man. Choose a music. Ain't nothing else to be saying. Let him do it. Let him do it. Get down here. Who said? Ain't nothing else to be saying. that was wrapped up in a tight little boat listen listen listen listen, the way i describe this place and i tell people all the time and i don't want y'all to take it the wrong way but i describe this place all the time as it's it's anti-church but what i mean by that it is not, church-led but god is always in it god is always first and foremost in this god gave me this idea, and like y'all talk about a dream and all of those things.

1:17:10 I had dreams. I had visions. I had all of that. But I had the foresight to make it work. And we're here. And I thank all of you all. Ain't nothing enough to say tonight. And y'all have a great wish God bless everybody. Love y'all all. We'll do it again. We'll do it again. I mean, someone get out of there. Man, I get doing it. I get doing it, mama. I'm just doing it. I enjoyed that one. Dude. What's up, brother? You can't extend this because this is good. You want me to extend this? Run it out. Run it. Run it. Run it.

1:17:53 Run it out. All right. Y'all give me a minute. Y'all give me a minute. I'm going to go out and come back in. All right. All right.