Armor Off: Real Talk on Fear, Healing, and Keeping Love Alive

0:00 Good afternoon, everyone. Happy Friday. This is your host, The Dude, and welcome to another episode of The Kickback. And as we do, every time I get on the mic, I say, read the screen, people. We don't do any kind of disrespect. Here at The Kickback, this is a place for transparent and vulnerable conversations. This is a place of love. This is a place of brotherhood. This is a place of having great conversations. Let's talk about what's on your mind and let's get to know each other. But we are The Kickback. The Kickback, the place of the brothers.

0:44 Yeah. Music.

3:23 Dave, what's going on, my brother? Man, it's been a Friday. How about you? Man, it has been a Friday. When I say, man, it's been a Friday, it's been a Friday. I hope everybody understands and knows that driving a school bus is not for the faint of heart. I'm just going to tell you. And especially in Nashville with all of these non-driving folks around here. Yes. Yes. Look, I just came down Clarksville Highway. You got two lanes going one way, two lanes going another, and a turning lane. You got five lanes.

4:05 How is it two cars ran into each other and there's no other cars on the road? Two cars ran into each other on five lanes of a road. Uh listen man listen listen i try to figure out how some of the stuff happens in the first place, but i but being up as high as i am being up as high as i am i can look down in vehicles and see what's going on inside of vehicles right right right phones food oh yeah makeup makeup I mean, all types of things are going on inside cars that people are driving on these roads.

4:48 And it's like I was explaining to my wife when I got here is like I was on Trinity Lane and I was letting a student off. Now, the process of letting a student off is 200 feet before you let that student off. You activate your ambers, which is the orange blinking lights. Okay so then when you get within 50 feet of their stop you activate your reds which means you've got the red lights up top flashing and you have a stop sign that comes out on the side of your bus and it's also flashing and there's a little yellow pole that comes out in front of your bus. All of these indicate and your headlights are flashing and your turn signal because if you got your wigwags on all of these things are flashing lady drives past me and she waves i'm blowing a horn and like hey slow down slow down and she's waving at me lady don't you have a small stop sign on the side of the bus that comes out well we only have one most charter buses have two, Okay. But don't you know you're not supposed to pass a stop school bus?

6:00 I would hope you know that, but it seems that most people don't. So they think because you got... Go ahead. Jimbo, Mr. Jimbo, how you doing tonight, sir? I'm doing well. How about yourself? Doing all right. Welcome to The Kickback. I am your host, The Dude. David Van Cleaves is my co-host. We appreciate you being here We appreciate you being on our platform We've been looking for another brother to come in And join in with us There'll be some other guys coming in shortly, But thank you for being here Well thank you for having me Where are you from Jimbo? Born and raised in Nashville Alright Another unicorn We are We're still going strong We're still going strong, Absolutely I am a Nashville native myself, born and raised here.

6:51 My Harry Hubbard Hospital is where I was born, raised in East Nashville, came out of Maplewood High School. And in a turn of event, as you came in, we were talking about what I do. I'm a bus driver and I drive out of Maplewood High School. So it's crazy how it all came back around full circle. Now, Jimbo, I see we have an intake form on you, and we're going to sit down and do an interview with you. But while you're here, just give us a little insight on who you are and what you do, Mr. Jimbo. Well, I just recently retired from Nashville Fire Department, where I spent 36 years on the front lines.

7:32 Thank you. And my last 15 years, I volunteered with peer support and critical incident stress, as well as doing my firefighting duties. And that field has kind of been a calling for many. And so since I retired, I went back into work. And excuse me, I'm out of breath. I didn't realize I was going to be on the show when I was outside doing some. I mean, you can talk and then I can mute you and you can just listen. If that's what you choose to do, you can just check it out and listen. No, I love talking and I love meeting new people and sharing our experiences.

8:15 Man, that's how it grows. So now what I'm doing is about 18 months ago, a... Mental Health Substance Abuse Facility opened up in West Tennessee. It's over in Waverton. Okay. And basically, I just go around and talk to fire departments. It's for first responders and also military people that are active and also retirees. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we got somebody we might need to hook you up with. But here's the thing. I don't know how much my niece actually explained to you.

8:59 A lot of my panel is like Dave is ex-Coast Guard. He was a Coast Guard. And a couple other guys that comes on the show is ex-military. And some of them deal with whatever it is. We're here just to have conversation as men. There's no political. There's no religion. There's no color lines. even though some people may say some things they they're pure at heart you have to understand that we are men first and foremost absolutely and i'm pretty sure in the field you're in you've heard a lot of things absolutely and in the field you in you don't see color lines right no right so So because here's the reason why I'm giving you this spiel at the beginning, me being the host, this is like my little community.

9:57 And some people here have had different life experiences in their own lives. We are not racist by any means. And I apologize for having to say this to you, but we've had people here that have misconstrued people's personal stories and was like, well, you're racist, you're racist. No, this this was this gentleman's perspective, because if the reason why I built this is so men could have a place so they could have transparent conversations about real life and what's going on with you. I'm pretty sure you and your wife don't like each other every day. I'm pretty sure your kids are out here doing some effed up things.

10:39 I'm pretty sure your brother, your sister or brother or sister in law drives you up the wall with something they're doing. So life is not peaches and cream for everybody. So we talk about everything. We talk about our children. We talk about finances. We talk about our wives. We talk about our friends. We talk about everything. And like I said, today's your first day being here. If you don't feel comfortable talking or jumping into the conversation, you can always mute yourself. But you said you like talking. Listen, we're going to do some talking. Once everybody gets in here, we're going to do some talking. And believe you me, it's going to be a lot of talking.

11:23 Just about men stuff. We ain't there's no there's no actual agenda. It's just I built this for a place for men to just come and have some real conversations with each other. You understand what I'm saying? I totally get it. I totally get it. And you're right. I mean, we don't know what the other person, we don't know the miles that they've walked in their shoes. And we have to be open to understand where they may be coming from. Right. If we're not open, then we can't have a simple dialogue with each other and learn from each other and coexist with each other. Right and that's all that i want is i want us to be we i want us to coexist with each other because this is a place this place called earth it's it's a lot of it's a lot of crazy things going on and if we don't unite with each other then then the powers that be is going to take us under.

12:25 Absolutely you know but you you i love what you said if you haven't walked a mile in that other person's shoes, then you can't understand who they are. But once you get a better understanding, you'll understand that, hey, this one, and you deal with trauma and things, drug uses, you know, all that different stuff. So whatever that particular person may have gotten themselves into was whatever their particular trauma or series of events that happened to them in their lives that got them to the point where they needed to come and see you. And that's a no judgment zone. And that's what I built this to be, a no judgment zone.

13:11 If you're feeling like, man, my job is messed up or something's going on, then let's talk about it. And I also say this, I may not be as old as you are, but I feel like this. There's a young man out here in this world right now that's younger than me that's stuck in whatever situation he's stuck in, and he feels like that situation that he's stuck in is his forever, and he doesn't understand that tomorrow's a new beginning. Next week is going to be different. Next month is going to be different. Next year is going to be different as long as you keep on pushing through and don't let the circumstances of whatever is going on right now keep you complacent.

13:56 Absolutely. I agree with you. Totally. The saying it's called it's a life lesson, not a life sentence. Right. I love it. Yeah. But a lot of people don't understand that. They don't understand that it's a life lesson. They think, oh, oh, this is this is this is it. This is what's happening. This is it. Nothing else is going to happen for me. Hey, you don't know that. Listen, I have I have been through a few things in my life. I ain't saying my life is just hard, horrible or whatever, but I've been through a few things in my life. And now on the other side of those those set of circumstances, I'm on the other side of them.

14:38 Life looks a whole lot better. But here's the thing. On the other side of that, I didn't see myself being here in this moment. Having this conversation with you, I didn't see myself being here, but on the other side of it, I love being here. Like you say, you love to talk, man. I can talk all night, but I also love to hear other people give their experiences on life and what they're going through, because maybe there's a lesson in there for me. I agree 100%. Right. So it is it is amazing. And like I said, again, thank you for being here.

15:20 So when are we going to come out to the facility in and shoot this video and sit down with you and talk about what everything you do? Just give me some dates and I'll get with you. I'll give you my email if you need it. It should be in your bio, right? The bio you sent to the show. Okay. Yeah. And your phone number is there, right? It is. Okay. Well, after the show is over with, I'll text you and I'll throw out some dates and we'll see if we can't set up something. Absolutely. We'd love to have you come out and experience it because I can tell you how great a place is.

16:03 But until you come out and experience it for yourself, one gentleman that came through our facility just went on and on. He said, y'all way undersold this place. Right. And you saved my life. So that gentleman was, you know, he's dealt with a lot of trauma and pain in his life. And now he's, you know, he's on the road to recovery. He's worked out a lot of his demons and is able to process and go on. Amen. God is good. Absolutely. Man, listen, listen, listen. As I was saying, you know, making it through the things that I'm on the other side of doesn't mean that I'm not still going through things.

16:50 At the moment I'm going through things and it's like you. I'm not a newlywed but I'm I've only been married for about five years and we're in that we're in that awkward space if you can understand what I'm saying we're in that awkward space we love each other but we're in an awkward space and so it's like this is not what I imagined yeah. This is not what I imagined, but it's the epitome of the old sketch, the devil and the angel. And I've got the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder, and they're both whispering secrets in my ear. If you can understand what I'm saying.

17:36 Yeah, I totally get it. And it's like. There's love between a man and a woman. It's give or take. It's not, you know, 50-50. It could be 90-10. It can be 70-30, you know, and some days it's going to be your day and some days it's going to be her day. But all those days added up, if you stick it out and you make it work, they are so worth it. Man, and that's it. Go ahead. It was what you were saying a minute ago, you know. Yeah, life leaves little things on us each and every day from the experiences, the good experiences and the bad experiences.

18:19 And the bad experiences that we get through, they're still there, just as well as the good experiences. And it's all about how we process them and get through them. Right. Man, I'm working on it. I'm seriously working on it. But it's like, I love my wife. I love being married. I love what we have built together in such a small time. And our story on how we met is so amazing and filled with a blessing that, you know, you look back at the beginning and the love story and how, you know, it was the ball.

19:05 And you danced and it was, and this is all metaphoric. This is all metaphoric. But you know, you look at the dance of dating and you look at the allure of courting and you look at the allure and then you, five years later, you looking at this person like, Did I make the right decision? Absolutely. Did I make the right decision? I mean, because I just honestly, I just told my mother this. I just told my mama that my mama said, listen, what God has for you is for you and your assignment. He he's your assignment has already been written. It's up to you to finish out the course.

19:48 And I was like, wow, mama. wow she told you right bro she told you right just don't let that seven-year itch trip you up. Dave it's not about anybody else it's not about I don't want anybody else I really don't I want my wife I want my wife but our biggest thing right now is we're battling over communication we haven't found the right soundtrack to our movie we haven't found the right soundtrack to our movie and so now we're like one two three seven one two three nine one two three ten, and trying to find the right dance moves hey man do you understand her love language is that she understand yours yeah she understood we've talked about that hers is gift giving and mine is love words of affirmation.

20:48 It's awesome that you know that. Yeah. I mean, we worked on, that's the whole point. See, I've been married before. You know, my ex-wife, we have two children together. So I was married before and it was a totally different situation. My previous marriage was one of me being a controlling person, not controlling in the relationship. I have to explain to you what I mean by controlling. So I dated before. Actually, I've been married a couple of times, okay? But this last time before this one, I dated a couple of women my age and I was like, shit, this ain't working. I'm going to go find me a young tenderoni. I'm going to train her up the way I want her to be and she's going to be the woman that I want her to be.

21:36 And that backfired in my face. Right, right. It happened. It happened. It backfired. it was and I can honestly say there was no God in that relationship for me it was purely about me trying to make the woman that I wanted that ain't never gonna work, right I totally agree with that too it didn't work it did not work two kids came out of it two beautiful blessings came out of it but, that thing it was it was. Just it was tumultuous from the beginning. It was rocky and rolly. She had her her triggers and traumas and I had my triggers and traumas and we battle from the beginning.

22:25 And you should have tried a mail order the Philippines or China. I thought about it. I thought about it, man. I was like, how do I get one of these mail order brides? But you still got to pay to ship them over here. Oh, no, the kicker, it's not just them. After they get here, then they want to bring their family. Right. I got to ask y'all a question. Do you all remember the Twilight Zone where the man was sentenced to prison on a planet by himself? And he got supplies once a year by a spaceship, and he had gotten the catalog.

23:06 He had to wait a whole year to order like the Sears catalog and he ordered a mail order robot bride who was gonna be, made just for him to do whatever and it took him three years to get it right at the end of the day from the time he got sentenced to the time he got the book to the time he ordered to the time he came, and the prison was he was by himself with a robot. I'm just parking right there. Wife. Perfect wife. But she was a robot. You can't park it right there, Morris. That was the prison sentence is what I'm saying. Don't nobody want that. Yeah.

23:52 Or do we? That's what I'm saying. Or do we? I mean, we are all men. Let's be honest. Would you want to be secluded on an island with the perfect woman? The perfect, perfect woman. She does not do all the things you feel like a woman shouldn't do. She does everything a woman should do for you, whether she's a robot or whatever. Would you really be okay with that? Not at all, man, because you need change in life. That sounds like a situation that's going to get stagnant. No matter how perfect she is or how perfect you may think she is, it's going to get stagnant. And then you don't have any, no deflection, no diversion.

24:39 You need, you need, we need some spice. And spice, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's savory, sometimes it's salty. But you still need all of those spices to make the gumbo taste good. So, so watch this, Dave. You know, that dude was supposed to be kind of crazy. But in his genius, watch this, he showed us that we need change. We need that one to say, no, no, I don't like that. Perfection is a myth that everybody has an expectation of somebody else, to bring to them who are themselves desperately imperfect.

25:20 Most definitely. You know what I'm saying? Then we live in this imperfect world, and then we don't have no compassion for one another. So, I mean, you know where I'm going? Yes. Yeah, I totally get it. I totally get it. Exactly. It's like watching Facebook or any of the social medias. You're seeing the highlight reels. You're not seeing all the struggles and everything that's going on in the background. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And I don't I don't I don't understand why. And I'm not calling out anybody in particular, but why are you a 40 year old man? And every time you do something, you you got to pull out the camera and take a picture.

26:04 You got to show the world what you're doing. Are you a 30, 40, 50 year old man? And look here, Facebook, I just went to the bathroom and I peed without it stopping. Bathroom selfie. No kidding. Hashtag no more kidney stones. We're going to stay recording events that are, you know, unique and special. But when it's like, yeah, hey, I'm walking down the street. I'm trying to get my down steps in. Okay. Right. Listen, listen. It's my beautiful idea. Everybody wants to be a star.

26:48 Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. Everybody wants to be a star. Now, listen, I am the host of the show. I am the dude, whatever. But if you guys that are normally on here, if you think back over some of the shows, nine times out of ten, I'm playing the background, and I'm listening to you guys have great conversations. And I'll I'll buddy in and and make my make whatever the statement is I have to make. And then I bag back out and I'll let you guys finish your conversations. I don't usually just go in and just try to take over the platform because I am the host, because the thing is, it's not just for me. It's for everybody.

27:28 This is a place where, yeah, I need to come and vent, too. And it's real what I'm going through right now, man. I'm really going through a transition. I'm really going through a thing in my marriage. It's not, I'm not to say that my marriage is going to be over with. No, I'm not saying that at all. But you guys are older than me. Help me. I, we're, we're at a place of communication that it's like. Either I feel attacked or she feels attacked. And I'm trying to really figure out how we got to a place where we feel like we're attacking each other to have real deep conversations about us.

28:08 It ain't about finances. The finances are fine. The children are OK. The house is good. But when it comes to personal situations about the two of us and what we have going on, it's like World War three between the two of us. She's got her, she got her soldiers up. I got my soldiers up. And then we start shooting at each other. And then it's, I back off, you back off. When was the last time, when was the last time you two just got away? Just the two of you. Probably, I don't know, because you got to think the last two years, you got to think 2024 was. I know you had the accident and then I was at home.

28:55 We went on a cruise with a group. Then our anniversary came up. The anniversary is in January. And I don't really know what happened this year, but I don't think we really did anything for our anniversary this year. And you mean like going away, going away? Yeah, I'm not saying, and don't tie it to your anniversary. Don't tie it to a specific holiday or personal holiday. I'm just saying an arbitrary weekend, y'all just go get away. Like you just go rent a place over in Gatlinburg and just go drive four hours east, go into your little cabin, you know, bring your supplies with you, get your Monopoly board and your Domino's, and just sit down and just, you know, just relax and just get back to being.

29:42 The two of you, it sounds like that's why I mentioned that seven-year itch earlier, because at that five-year mark, now we start seeing each other's imperfections. And then the things that we make allowances, you know, for each other. And then at the five-year mark, we get tired of making allowances. And then that starts the attitude session. And then two years down the road, if we don't make corrections before the attitude session gets out of control, that's where the five-year itch comes in. Because then you start looking around or somebody notice you because she ain't noticing you or you ain't noticing her and somebody pays attention. So that's that's how the enemy jumps in and pulls the old okie dokie on marriages.

30:22 Right. But that's why I say you got it. It sounds like you two just need some time, some private time to get away. We just to, you know, decompress. We're about to do that in October. We're going on a cruise, just the two of us, just the two of us. We're going on a cruise in October for a week. We're going from the 11th to the 16th. We'll be on a boat. You know, of course we're going to fly down, stay in a hotel that night before, then get up, get on the boat, sail out, and then come back. And I'll have, cause it's, that's the week of fall break. So fall break. Yeah.

31:02 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We fly back. We fly back in on Thursday. And then, you know, fall break's not over till that next, you call it the next Monday, but that Friday's over with. And so then I have a day at home in the weekend and then I go back to work after that. Right. You seriously got me thinking. Now I'm trying to remember because we went to Gatlinburg in June, but we took the children. And what I talked about at the beginning, when I said that the the ball and the allure, Dave, we used to just I have this infatuation with waterfalls and bodies of water.

31:43 So when I first started dating this woman, Dave, when I said we'd get in a car and we'd drive to, I'd find a body, a big enough body of water on the map. And I just set the GPS and we just go and we just sit on the side of some water and just talk and laugh and giggle and have a good time. And that was all during the dating. That was all during the dating. And then, you know, once you get together and you start to try to blend lives, it changes. Mm-hmm. Yes, definitely. I totally agree with all of that. I agree exactly what he told you, too, though, is still continue to date her.

32:25 Even though you're married and everything that's going on, you still have to pursue her. And if you'll do that and he pursues you back that keeps the. Relationship going after though like you said earlier as well the devil's always looking for a way to put slide in there hey let me jump in when you do that in pursuer you can't be a stalker what do you mean that's the crazy part right there I'm learning this man I'm learning this man You can't be hanging outside the window Talking about so when you gonna talk to me Okay, So, but what do you, break that down a little bit more. You can't be a stalker because how am I really going to be a stalker when we live in the same house, sleep in the same bed?

33:22 You've seen that progressive commercial with the little girl, the woman moves in new and the little girl's just creepy, just hanging around, just staring at her. Oh, yeah. She's like, you're still being creepy. Right. I'll do anything for you. I think that's what Moe's talking about so watch this another thought came to me y'all remember when Samuel Jackson was with Yoda, Star Star Wars I've never seen that episode but I'm pretty sure some other people have seen it go ahead there was a famous scene where the little boy who was Anakin Skywalker who became Darth Vader oh yeah you talking about the very first episode 1 Yeah.

34:08 So now he was like, what, five years, five years old. And Yoda said, no, I don't like him. And then Samuel Jackson's like, well, why? He's just a kid. He said, well, I sense in him what? He say fear. There's a great fear in him. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. And all that leads to the dark side yes and that's what has entered in my brother you right yeah i have to agree i have to agree what you're saying i totally have to agree with that because here's the thing it just me being honest and transparent man i've been down this road a couple times and i'm not saying i'm not saying i'm i'm i'm not saying that i'm a great guy listen I've come to terms with I have emotional damage.

35:03 I understand that I have some emotional triggers and traumas. I do. And a lot of them comes from being in relationships with the wrong women. My picker has been messed up for years. And I have not only let them abuse me, but I've also abused myself. So, Morris, you're right. it all comes from fear because it'd be not just being straight up just being honest being a man, i left the first wife i this is my fourth time being married if nobody knows here this is me i'm gonna lay myself out on on the on the table i've been married four times okay the first wife i left her because she was just she was she was a little more nuts to me and i was young and i still felt like i still had that high school body and i still had options and i did still have Options the second wife.

35:55 I tried to turn a hoe into a housewife. Another bad decision. Another bad decision. So I've been down. Those were the first two. So the third one, like I was explaining at the beginning, I said, I'm going to go out and I'm going to find me a young, vibrant, young tenderone, and I'm going to turn into the woman that I wanted to turn her into. That exploded in my face. You understand what I'm saying? So I've had this big bout, me personally, the dude. I've had this big bout with the word fear and failure failure has been my biggest adversary throughout my life failure that word failure has been my biggest adversary because a lot of things in my life did not go right and marriage has been one of them so yeah i i operate out of fear.

36:45 Hey, Joe, you know what? I just said to my wife before I got on here, and she happens to be in here. I'm in the bathroom this time. You know, most of the time it's them in the bathroom. I'm in the bathroom now. But anyway, listen, remember when we were children, if we did not have, we had to have either known somebody or been that boy who was from the family that was a broken home. The mother was assertive because she was strong because she was trying to keep it going on she worked her two jobs trying to go to school raising kids and you know we way before Latsky and all that other stuff right okay but watch this when we would come and randomly say I'm gonna be an architect and build the greatest skyscraper in the world often what we heard was you better quit dreaming, and learn how to get a job, learn how to do your homework, learn how to be on top. We got grilled with that.

37:48 We got grilled with that. Then you go to school and you dreaming, you doodling, they dreaming. And we got so scorned for thinking outside of the box that we were put in. Stop. Now we got a fear of success. Why? Because if we go outside the box that we in, where we comfortable now, Even though it's a struggle, we don't want to lose everything all over again. And, dude, I'm on my third. So, and, you know, I understand. Right, right. But it's just like, man, it is. You get what I'm saying? I do.

38:29 I get it. It's all relative, and I get what you're saying. I totally understand it, and I get it. But at the same hand, I'm starting to come to terms with my demons, with my fears, with my with the things that are going on with me, because I can speak them out loud and I understand. And I'm trying to I'm trying to self I didn't plug the OBD meter to into myself. And I'm trying to diagnose where I'm at with the situation and how can I make it better? Believe you me, it's been a lot of praying, a lot of praying, lots of praying, lots of praying.

39:14 And then on the other side of this is trying to build this thing. If any of you guys don't know, right now in the background, I'm working on trying to start an in-person group where we can meet up twice a month and have conversations like this. We have some things going in the background that we're working on to try to bring this to face-to-face interaction. I know it's not going to be for everybody, and I mentioned that last week. This particular platform is not going to stop. I have committed myself, my family, and everybody understands that every Friday night, I have to have a conversation with my fellas. We have to have this time because just like y'all needed this.

39:58 Morris, you've told me time and time again you need this. Mark, you've told me time and time again you needed this. Y'all don't understand how much I need y'all. Y'all don't understand how much I really, the conversations we have after this show, days after this show, me and Bubba have conversations about stuff that you've said, Morris, about stuff that Mark has said. Riley, whoever comes into the room, man, when it's something of substance, it sticks. Yes but i need y'all just like y'all need us and i'm just a man i'm telling i'm just going through it right now and it's like i feel like god is trying to transition me into something that i feel like i'm not ready for but again he's already written the assignment it's just up to me to continue on this course.

40:50 Is everybody here? Is everybody gone? Hello? Knowing isn't half the battle, brother. Knowing is half the battle. So when you know that this is what it is, part of you is fighting that that you already know. And I do it all the time because you got to push past the pain. You got to deal with the fact that, you know what? You're a brother. You're a believer in the most time. And when you put on them magic glasses, you can't take off. You can't put them on nobody else. You see it clearly. And the most difficult thing is trying to translate it into somebody else's language.

41:34 Man. love language man come on speak that that is morris that's the epitome of how i feel right now man bro it's it's part of being marked see you you you you've been chosen to be look at how lonely leaders are bro even though they got people all around them some of the people closest to them but betray them because the enemy is out is trying to attack you and in this day and hour when you trying to unify us and give us hope and remind us of who we are oh you're gonna get you look that's why we need to rally around you prayerfully first because that's the power, that's all I'm trying to do is get men to understand that we need to be a unified.

42:23 Front and we need to be able to have, real conversations not no fluff I understand we all got sports teams I understand we all We all got our favorite race car driver. I understand we all got our favorite whatever it is. But what's really going on with you today, brother? How's life really been going? And I think that's what's missing in today's society is that we're not being honest with each other about what's really going on with us because none of us are perfect and none of us actually have a perfect life. But we've been compared to perfection that's constantly putting our face through social media, the success of all the stars.

43:08 And, you know, we, you know, one of the things I stopped doing a long time ago and I will go to a concert. I will, I will spend money. And the last beautiful concert I went to, I went with my wife. She was lovely looking. She had the Betty Boop look and everything. And we had a wonderful time and we saw Will Downing and we saw Stephanie Mills in Nashville and watch this oops you can't tell everybody oh lord y'all done went to a secular you know it's like oh lord I'm going to hell for listening to when I think of home I think of a place where and so we so villainized our faith walk we can't even be real no more and we Mo you gotta remember you can't base your walk on what others think let them think what they want to think they talked about jesus because he ate with publicans and and and and he sat with samaritans and you know all the things that the pharisees said you don't do he did because he didn't come here for you know he didn't come here for people that thought they had it together he came here for people that thought it was broken.

44:24 So don't worry about what other people say. If they so heavily bound that they know earthly good, let them walk that road. Say that. You walk your path. I'm not saying that for myself. I'm saying that as one who understands what dude is saying. Oh, no, no. I got you. I got you. I'm in the same context. Yeah. It's the spiritual warfare that you're dealing with. Yeah. Because you already know who you are, bro. Right. But anybody listening, that statement wasn't made to you. That statement was made to anybody listening. You have to walk your own path. You have to work out your own soul salvation.

45:04 And you can't look to the left and to the right because your brother and sister to the left or the right, even though you think they're pulling with you, they got to row their own boat. So you got to follow your own path. You got to be true to yourself and you got to listen to the voice of your heavenly father. Because what my father tells me, he don't tell you or anybody else. What's for me is for me and I have to follow the designated course he has set for my life. So here's a question to a group of men how do and I know everybody's answer is going to be different but I need some honesty and I want to hear everybody's different answer, what do I how do I handle, my emotions and the way I'm feeling about this situation because like I said it's Not it's no cheating.

45:54 There's no finances. There's no nothing. We just can't find the right music to communicate to. What do I need to do? Jimbo, you up first. I'll tell you, the best thing that you can learn to do is listen. And I'm not saying that you don't, but you have to change your perception of what you're hearing from her. And don't take it as a front towards you. But you have to hear what she's saying, hear the flexion in her voice and see her body language. And she has to do the exact same to you. That, you know, just as soon as you start saying something, the walls aren't going up as well as if she starts saying something back to you, those walls aren't going up either.

46:43 You know, it's a double-edged sword in a way. But I just think honestly that if you take that time to really listen, And you go back to those times when it was good, you know, and think about what you, you know, how did you listen to her when you first started courting her? And how did she listen to you? And, you know, the mundane life, everyday life is always going to get us. But we have to go back to those early times and think about how did I listen to her and how did she listen to me? And the words that you choose to communicate with her as well as the words that she chooses to communicate with you is what's going to dictate how you get along.

47:30 Thank you for that, Jimbo. Dave, come on with it. What am I coming with? Your answer to the question. Give me that question one more time. The wife called in. I had to take her call right quick. Understandable. The question was, how do I need to handle the fact that we can't find the perfect music to communicate with each other with right now? Oh, yeah. All right. Well, I mean, I think Jimbo was on point. He hit it on the head, man. So I don't think I can mess with that any better than he did. Again you know like like i said you know when when the wife and i when we start to get off when our conversation starts to get off or when our our rhythm starts to get off i know it's time for us to take a time out and and you know just stop the chorus all together stop the beat stop stop the music and just get a reset so that's why i said you know going going on a cruise sounds nice and if you're able to i i like i like like the reason i mentioned the mountains is because i I like getting away away.

48:40 I mean, I don't want to go out. I'm not saying that a cruise isn't a good idea. If you enjoy people watching everything and all of the meals and the mid-rats and all of the games and the karaoke and all of that, that's a lot to see and do on a cruise. But sometimes when you need to reset your relationship, you need that quiet. To me, I need, I'm going to put this right, I need that quiet, intimate space where we can just sit and let our heartbeats get back in connection with one another. Couples who are very close and have very good relationships, their heartbeats are in sync with each other. And it's hard to hear somebody else's heartbeat when you got a lot of distractions and noise around.

49:22 So for me, it's like, OK, we're going to jump on a plane. We're going to fly to a destination and we're going to sit in the hotel or we're going to sit in the lobby. Or, you know, we're just going to go find a park and we're just going to get back in tune. We're going to try and get back in sync to one another. And just having those conversations, you know, not being. And I love what Morris said about fear. Fear is the fear is the killer. You know, false evidence appearing real. We're all upset about something or, you know, we can be upset within ourselves about something that we think is happening and be totally off base because it's false evidence. We think it's real. We think we saw what we saw, but we didn't.

50:04 So the only thing I'd say, what works for me, what has worked for me, is even if I've got to just put her in the car and we just drive around Nashville at nighttime, just look at the nightlights of Nashville, drive all the way around the loop, and we just get out there in the car by ourselves and just talk. Right. Morris, come on through. Okay. I was saying defensive listening. That's something that we, a lot of times, myself, I learned that I was more defensive listening than active listening. When I'm actively listening and I'm paying attention to who's listening to me or I'm paying attention to when sometimes, you know, their eyes gloss over, man, and you still talking and then you get upset because they done checked out.

50:54 And I learned to be still. And when I was at that place where you are right now, dude, I prayed and I just said, God, what do I do? And he said, be still, know that I am God. Now, during that, I had to check myself. I had to bridle myself. I had a message called bridle your bridle. And it's two different definitions. Because you know that affront is often what we hear when we're defensively listening. So we waiting on them to attack us because we're so used to it. And that fear factor is kicking in and that's what the devil likes to use. But if you can really, really be sure with yourself and your relationship with God, number one, and knowing that you're trying to do right, you can kind of tone it down a little bit, man.

51:43 And ease back and just distance yourself a little bit from that immediate response. Because that can be deadly. That immediate, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I got you. I got you. Morris, you are on top of it tonight, man. I'm digging the gems that you're dropping, man. You are so on top of it. And the last thing you just said, you're right. And a lot of times I am in the conversation waiting to respond. You understand what I'm saying? man, I am defensively listening. You're right. And that's the reason why I'm asking every man for something different, because what Jimbo said, listen deep.

52:30 What Dave said, and I'm just going down the line and mark you up next, but I'm going down the line and I'm taking something from everybody that has said something, man. And what Dave said really makes a lot of sense. And what Jimbo said made a lot of sense. I need to date her like I did. I need that allure back from the beginning. And what Dave said, we used to do those things. And I guess with life and with, you know, the hustle and bustle of the everyday, those things kind of get pushed to the wayside, you know? It's not particularly intentional, but it happens.

53:13 Mark, what's your answer to the question, my brother? You really want me? Yes. Yes. I really want every man on this panel's answer to my question. That's a good, I mean, I'm chiming in with Morrison, with Jim Bowman. I mean, I think, you know, like I've said in a lot of these podcasts, man, you know, we meet the representative, not a representative, only that person's there. You know what I mean? So you're seeing what you weren't really looking for, what you weren't really looking to see at the beginning that you're starting to see now. And it might have always been there on both ends, and you just wasn't recognized because you were in the honeymoon phase.

53:58 And listening. I mean, we listen. Do we listen to respond, or do we listen to hear each other's side, each other's viewpoint? And a lot of us you know we we want to say we listen to to the viewpoint but we start picking choosing what we want to hear and then we attack that so are we actively listening or are we listening to respond you know and we do we have to come to realization that we do bring baggage to a relationship and you know and that other person does too so we have to realize that you know nobody's going to be perfect you know everybody's going to have something i don't call them false but there are things that people with personalities that just don't agree with us.

54:45 So we need to figure out how to work with that you know or have that conversation about that and you know we like you said we go to work every day you guys get up and go get on the grind every day and you put when you walk out that door you you suit up you put that suit of armor on and you go out there and fight the world. But when you come home, you leave it on. You come back and you bring that armor in the house and you're using it on the person that you say that you love the most and vice versa. You have to learn how to take that armor off when you come in the door. You know, a thousand percent. You know, that's the key. You got to be vulnerable, man. You know, you got to, you know, I don't consider being weak as a man to just say, you know what, that's some bullshit what you just said not like that but you know I don't agree with that plus you gotta you have to you have to, what works for me is I've learned to not start attacking the person, but challenging the behavior you know it's not you know when you go after the person it's a personal attack they feel like it's a personal attack but when you're like hey you know let's talk about you know how I'm feeling about what was done.

56:02 You know what I mean? Instead of, you know, hey, I don't really. Well, when you start attacking that person with that person, I mean, it gets a little bit personal, even though you don't feel like that, but, you know, it does. You made me think about it. Maybe in what I have going on inside my head, let's be honest, what we all have, we all have different things going on inside of our heads. And what I have going on inside of my head, it doesn't feel like I'm attacking her. But what you just said, Mark, makes sense. Maybe I need to change my approach when it comes to certain things, the way I say certain things or I do certain things when it comes to communication.

56:47 Maybe I need to change my approach because she says she feels pressured to talk to me about situations between the two of us. She feels pressure, but she can go have a conversation with somebody else. But she feels like I pressure her to answer or I pressure her to have a conversation. And we were raised differently. Of course, people raised differently. Life is different for everybody. I was always taught that you talk about it right now. Let's get it out. Let's get it on table Let's get it over with let's move on The way she was taught is you say what you got to say. I say what I got to say Then we go our separate ways we process and we come back and talk about it and to me That I feel like if I go away and I think about it I'm just most nine times out of ten I get flustered because of the way my mother brought me up and the way I was raised because Because my mother was the type of person.

57:45 Let's get it on the table. Let's get it out right now. Let's get all of this out on the table. Let's get it over with so we can move on. And that was the way she handled situations for years. That was the way she handled it. Listen, you got a problem. Let's talk about it right now. Let's find a solution. Let's figure out what you need to do. Let's figure out what they need to do. And then you move on from it. Yeah, but you ain't working with your mom. You know what I'm saying? I got you, but... I got you, I got you, but I'm saying, the reason why I referenced that is because... I know why you did that. I mean, because, you know, we were brought up in a certain... You know, I was brought up, you know, in certain things. But, you know, one shoe is not one shoe fits all, you know?

58:26 And languages, man. You know, you might not be talking the same language that she's talking, that, you know, that love language, man. You know, and you guys are just... Uh, it is so many. I can go on this conversation forever, man. But you have to, sometimes it is good to process some things, especially if it's a, it's a, it's a contentious type of conversation. You have to give that, you know, things are going to be said. And for one, you don't want to, you don't want to get so upset, you know, so, so bad that things can't be taken back. You know, so you do need that. Okay, that's cool. Because sometimes it's going to come to an impasse that you guys are just not going to agree. So you have to take that step back and you'll process what was said, you know, because you might have missed something, you know, something that you wasn't really, or vice versa, you know, you thought about, hey, you know what, she was right.

59:14 Or, yeah, he was right, you know, and you need that cooling off time, man, because once things start going left, it's best just to walk away until things simmer down, man. You know, because... You're right, you're right. And what you're saying, and that's why I'm saying, this is the reason why I want every man to give me something different. What you just said is true because I've been in those moments where we've had that conversation and I said what I said and she said what she said and she she'll she'll walk away and she'll go to her corner and I'll go to my corner. And nine times out of 10, I'm steaming because of the way I was taught to communicate. I'm steaming. I am steaming hot because of the way I was taught to communicate.

59:56 So what are you doing about? What part? Because you didn't finish the conversation? Yes. Or you lost control of the conversation? Both. There it is. Both. Both. Okay. And that's exactly what you have to come to mind with in your own soul. Control comes in many freaking facets, man. You know what I mean? And, you know, it's a delicate conversation when you talk about what control is, man, because it seems like you you're trying to control the flow. And sometimes when you when you don't have that control, you know, that's that's the frustrating part.

1:00:36 You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's really hard to be vulnerable in front of. Yeah, it is. You have to. Yeah, you're right. Well, you got, you got, it's hard to just say, you know, to, to, to actively listen and let her get her thing out and let her process the things that you're saying, because you want to process the things she said. So why, why can't it, why does it have to be one-sided? Can everybody hear me by chance? Yes. Go ahead, sir. Yes, we can hear you. Go ahead. So, yeah, I'm new to this. Just want to introduce myself. I'm Zane. I'm an Air Force veteran. I'm just kind of listening. And it was mentioned by Morris, the question, how many remember love language when you're worn out, right?

1:01:22 When it comes to just the love language, we all got something different. You know what I mean? but what happened to just like just a little bit of empathy trying to understand a little bit maybe misunderstood right but just kind of sitting back and it's not a stab or being being stabbed at but just kind of sitting back and a little bit of empathy and understanding if that makes any sense Yes, sir. It makes total sense. Absolutely. And I'm not married, gentlemen. By all means, I've been in a couple relationships and all that good stuff, and they all seem to go a different route.

1:02:05 This is not about being married. This is about being a man, my brother. Okay. I'm trying to get on the same page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is welcome. Zane, welcome. I'm the dude. I'm the host. And this is a place for vulnerable and transparent conversations for men to have about this. Just it just happens tonight that I've been going through this this week. And so I'm this I'm the person with the subject. Usually I just kind of let conversations go and let them land wherever they land. But I'm really having a hard time with this. And I'm receiving what you guys are saying.

1:02:48 Emotionally damaged, really emotionally damaged. I understand that. I kind of feel that myself. I'll be honest with you. And so being that I'm emotionally damaged, it's hard. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? Emotional damage means that people have taken my emotions and they've stepped all over them. They've treated me less than because I'm an emotional man. What does that do with you? Because it was people that i thought cared about me at a certain level in a way is it like but back to the original question what does that have to do with you man i mean you said you're mostly damaged i mean you putting you putting a tag on you right i was 19 years old when i met my first daughter's mom 19 didn't know shit about the world love or nothing i thought that was gonna be my everything we laid down and had a kid she walked away and said she didn't want it i didn't know what i didn't know what to do with my emotions i thought that was my everything but to her it was just she walked away i didn't know how to handle them that's why i'm labeling myself because i've never had i've never and i'm going to counseling but i i didn't go to counseling or i didn't have that that role model or that male figure to help me walk me through it my mother didn't walk me through it nobody was there to walk me through it nobody was there to walk me through any of this shit but why you still can't call yourself that,

1:04:19 Because that's the way I feel. Hey, dude, let me ask you a question. Was your dad there when he was coming up? No. Okay, so watch this. I can identify with what you're saying. And the thing of it is, you grow up under a mother who's trying to hold it all together. The world ain't her fault. And every man in the world ain't jacked up. Now, we know all the complications today. And we're just now getting around to trying to deal with it and talk about it. But we still live to the blame and all that and we still live to pull yourself up by your bootstraps but what we was the way we was kind of brought up man was we were brought up you gotta listen it wasn't even so much about getting a degree it was about getting a job having what it takes to survive this world and be a good man now every good man that we was taught or told about didn't even exist it was what they considered was a good man then you fight to be what they was looking for as a man and then you find out that's not what none of these women looking for right now back to you mark the reason and i and i i i need a little more of what you're saying and i get and because i need an understanding you ask me what does that.

1:05:46 Have to do with me and why am i labeling myself because i don't know what else to call it i don't know what else to put in that place why why does it i mean i mean we've all been through things i mean you're not i can guarantee you you are not only person even on this podcast tonight that has had been on emotional roller coaster you know in relationships man you know so you i don't i don't damage man i mean i like morris when he said when he said man i i got scarves you know but that doesn't define who i am you know what i'm saying i really respected that i i i really understood that the the scars that i carry you know are just that.

1:06:30 You know what I mean? But it's not damaged, man. You know what I mean? It's you. It's you and your life experiences, man. I mean... Absolutely. I don't consider it damaged, man. To me, personally. And I mean, that's like, to me, that's killing my self-esteem. Physical damage or emotional damage any any i mean i understand the comments i understand the comment man i mean the the label but you you guys know i'm not a big fan of labels for one right you know but you know and this is this is a negative one that you're putting on yourself but you're trying to make something positive out of yourself man so how do those two things equal man how do you square those two things exactly exactly the thing and the thing about it too is you're not the same person that you were exactly you know you you you we live by the things that we've experienced in our life man i mean it's a lesson you can learn everything good and bad lessons from everything like i said earlier it's not a life sentence it's a life lesson exactly so where's the damage coming from man you gotta come from a different spot you know you're not are you a bad person no okay do you do you think you i mean do you think you're the same person you were 10 years ago no no i'm not the same person i was five years ago well why not i mean is it a better person yes i'm a better person i'm i'm a whole lot better than a person five years now than you were five years ago yes sir okay so i mean so i'm still trying

1:08:02 to get this damage part man you know i'm I'm trying to understand. I got you. And I love it. I love that you're trying to understand it. Maybe, like you said, maybe I'm using the wrong words, but that's how I've labeled myself for years. If it's wrong, tell me it's wrong. I need that. That's why we're here. My personal name. Do you think that's the problem that you're having right now in your relationship? Do I think I'm the problem? No. Well, the experience is the problem, that you're having a hard time opening up and being intimate with your wife. And when I say intimate, I'm just meaning emotionally, you know, allowing yourself to be vulnerable.

1:08:47 Actually, hold on, hold on, hold on. Actually, it's the other way around. If you want me to be honest, my wife, listen, let me give you let me give you her point. Let me give you her because you're only hearing me. I'm going to tell you about my wife and I'm not. This is my wife. OK, we met seven years ago. OK, we met seven years ago. We got married five years ago. OK, so when I met her, she had been living in this house, this house that we live in now for 15 years, her and her two kids. She had never been married. She'd been in a couple of relationships, but she'd been in this house by herself, running this house, doing everything, being the man, being the mother, being everything.

1:09:29 My son, when he was younger, he had some behavior issues. She had to work, take care, do all the things that you have to do in life. And so she hardened herself. She hardened herself. She's still hard to a certain degree. And I'm trying to get through to her to make her understand that for one, she has a partner. For two, she doesn't have to be so emotionally hard. Amen. It's funny that you say that because I'm in kind of a similar situation myself.

1:10:11 I was married for 25 years and lost my wife during the COVID outbreak. And then about three years later, I met a lady that lived in my neighborhood. And I feel like it was a God thing. But she's a similar situation to what your wife is going through. She came out of a really bad relationship. She's learned to be very independent. And it's hard. I mean, we were arguing earlier today just because she wanted, you know, she, I feel my love language is taking care of her. But then when she's strongly independent, it hurts me. It feels like I'm not doing my job. And I had to learn.

1:10:54 It still causes tension from time to time. And it did yesterday, last night, as a matter of fact. And our grandsons came over tonight, and we were trying to get a TV up in our house. And it was going to be later today before I could get it up and running. And she kind of, I won't say she didn't do anything wrong. She just was emotionally kind of cold at the moment. And I took that as I was failing her. And that's where I had that problem. Kind of like the emotional damage that you went through, I felt like I was failing, and that's what caused the issue.

1:11:35 Have you tried to express that in a manner that, hey, look, you've seen this way and I feel this way to make it more out in the open? I'm not saying that that makes any of us less of a man or anything like that. We all want to stand strong and we want to do all the good things and say all the right things. But when it comes down to somebody emotionally stepping away and then we get a feeling of feeling like we're failing or not doing something right, Can we not express our feelings in a manner that it doesn't have to be like a strong notion or like a I'm the man or anything like that? Some of us are still learning that. Some of us are still even at our big old ages.

1:12:20 You're right. And I agree with what you're saying. But some of us are still learning that. Why do we always think that a woman needs us for, I guess, you know, I don't, one, I'm not, you know, I'm not the Patriarch. I don't believe in this Patriarch thing. You know, I want a partner, someone offsets, and I offset, you know, we offset each other, you know, where he does the strength and where they're weak at, you know, I don't believe, You know how I feel about it. I got you, yes. But that's what most of us really want is a partner. But it seems like it sounds like it's problematic to me because you want to be the strong.

1:13:05 My wife is independent, and I want her to be independent. You know, sometimes I don't feel like doing what you want me to do. Do it yourself. You know what I mean? You know, I'm not here. How do I say this, man? I mean, we have this idea of a man wanting to, you know, I want to do this for her. Maybe she doesn't want that. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Maybe she doesn't need that. You know, when you start forcing on her, then she, you know, it's like, you know, women are different today than they were, you know, a few years ago. You know what I mean? Very true. I agree. And they're saying it. You know, we're not, sometimes I don't think we're hearing it.

1:13:48 You know, because of our history with the male in the home, the man in the home and stuff, man. But, you know, women, they're out there, you know, grinding like we are. Yes, I agree with that. They grind like a bad set of plates, man, you know. So what do you do when you have this independent woman, man? I mean, you got them butting heads. But it's not about her independence where we're butting heads. That was Jimbo's situation and he he's butting heads and he has to explain that a little bit more with me. It's not butting heads about her independence. What I'm butting heads with her about is her emotional state.

1:14:30 If you could only I'm giving you bits and pieces of my marriage, but this is not just being like this started today. This is. Sometimes women that that have to put themselves in a masculine role, it's like you said about going out and battling the world and you put on that suit of armor. You said that. OK, so there are women out here that men have left them with these children and all of these other responsibilities. So they put on this suit of armor. And when any man tries to get close to them, they're like Superman or like the Hulk and they punching at them. And and i was lucky enough to get the zipper off of that suit of armor but she won't take it off and that's all i'm saying is just take the suit off i'm not your i'm not your enemy what it looked like when the suit is off what was your to me to me what it looks like.

1:15:31 To me what it looks like is us having some great conversations and and talking up because you'd said partner. Okay. So I'm not always where I need to be. So sometimes I need some, I need to be checked in sometimes respectfully, respectfully. Hey, Joe, you out of line. My real name is Joe. Hey, Joe, you out of line. And it should be able to same way with her. Hey, you're out of line, Becky. You're out of line, baby. I don't think what you did was cool. It was out of line, but respectfully but the thing is, we can't have that type of conversation because she feels like I'm attacking her yeah yeah go ahead have you guys ever thought about I'm listening tentatively here why don't you guys try to do that when I was married I was married with 22 years I got divorced about 10 years ago I used to have the same issue about trying to over talk yelling and screaming and punching When two people are yelling at each other, one has to listen, and one has to listen to quiet air. That's quiet. That's right.

1:16:41 And one doesn't listen, you can never get the understanding of what you both need. What I did, I asked her, what can I do to help you feel better? See, that's the thing. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on, hello, gentlemen. Hello, gentlemen. Because he just touched on something that I go through on a consistent basis. When you ask that question and yet you still don't get an answer, then what do you do? Well, the answer is I don't know. That part. Okay. Well, when that comes about, okay, then you have to go back to your memory banks to when you guys first met. You have to go back to do the thing that you used to do because sometimes we as men we forget how we got them and we fail to do the same things to keep them, because sometimes you have to go back 10 12 15 years how long you've been with that individual, and it's okay well this is what i did to put a smile on your on her face and i'm not i'm not i'm no longer doing that so you sometimes we have to check ourselves as men it's okay where do i go wrong.

1:17:51 Let me go back and look at my notes and restarted the book again to find out where I went wrong at because she won't be able to tell you. You have to go back and say, okay, well, I did this, this, and this. You're right, and I have. You stepped all on my toes right then, and I have, and I know exactly. You just made me think about it. I know exactly the reason why now. Because of my way of communicating there were a few times where I exploded because she was not communicating in the form that I wanted her to communicate in and I would explode, and now it's gotten to the point where she shuts down, you taught her how to shut down.

1:18:40 There's an Air Force veteran and I'm a military leader as well too okay when you go into combat you have to be prepared You got to have your weapons, you got to have your ammo, you got to have everything. Once you run out of ammo, you got to run high. Same thing with Inno Maris. You know, you win the war together, but she ran out of bullets, and you left her there on a stranded island. And now, being that you left her there, she's like, okay, now I got to put this shell over me and be protected because you might do it again. That makes her complete. Yeah, it does. We teach each other. We teach each other how to treat us, man. If you're exploding, then you taught her how far to go and then just shut down. You know what I mean?

1:19:31 That's a wall. I mean, that's a wall. Every brick that you build is a wall. It ends up being a wall. And see, this is—yeah, yeah, I get it. I hear what you're saying. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mark. I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just want to say this. Thank you all because you just made me understand. And and you guys didn't do anything except give your opinion. But you just made me understand where I went wrong with the situation. And this is the reason why we're here, fellas. This is what you have to understand. This is the reason why we're here. I thank all of you all for forgiving me the insight and the information because I'm sitting here going through my mind.

1:20:12 I'm sitting here because somebody said you need to go back and remember the conversations y'all had at the beginning. Somebody said you need to go do this. And I'm analyzing everything that you all are saying, and I'm going through all the comments that you all are saying, and I'm doing some self-examining about myself, and the light came on and it said, ding! Have a question to ask every man with follow. Think about it for a second. What makes you a man? Really? Really? Yeah. Whoa. Go ahead. And I can guarantee you 99% of y'all gonna get it wrong.

1:20:54 What's been wrong? I can guarantee you. Okay, hold on. Is that right? Is that right answer? Yes, it is. There's not a right I mean there's not a right answer I don't think there's a right answer either let me put it like this when I was married like I said we were all raised up to not show emotion we were all raised up to work put food in the house I was taught to show my emotions to cry I'm more emotional than my wife. And my duration I was a truck driver 22 years over the road okay and my only thought was like i saw watch my granddad go to work come home pay the bills that's my that's my visionary was of being a man i was dead wrong when you do that you're that you're a provider at that point all because you pay the bills for food on the table and you know play with the kids every now and then go to work that makes you a provider am i correct you're fine, what's going to make you a man is when you sit down, don't hear that woman you have to listen to her by the tone of her voice her tone of her voice will tell you everything you need to know about what you need to be a man because I'm going to tell you I fell short of my marriage, And I'm not afraid to admit it. I fell short because I'm thinking, okay, I'm paying the bills. I'm bringing $1,500 a week home.

1:22:24 Oh, I don't have to go lucky. No, I was dead ass wrong. I was so short, man. I took a long walk. I was short period. And it cost me my marriage. Because why? I didn't show her attention. I wasn't loving her. I wasn't having a conversation that I did when we first met. That's why I told you, go back to when you first met. And this is where I feel short at. So I know I speak from experience. Adaption with access of emotion and life experiences. All of those could be used in each situation, whether it's with a woman, an argument or anything like that.

1:23:04 But I'm going to always go back to the empathy of things because women are empathetic. If you're empathetic and you're empathetic. Are you sure about that? Some of them. But if you're a man and you have empathy and you can adapt to what's going on in any given situation, that means you can be quiet. You can listen. And sometimes that's all they want you to do. Exactly. If you start yelling, if you start raising your voice in a manner, it's going to come right back at you so strong. And then everything is going to pop off and it's going to be a snowball effect. So empathy with adaption, with access.

1:23:46 You can use your emotions. You can use your life experiences. You don't have to make them everything. You don't have to put them out there as everything, but you can make them relatable and understandable. And sometimes just listen to what they're saying. You know, no facial emotions. Try not to have any expressions and listen. May I say the right things to them? That's all it does. Some women don't need to, they don't need to, they don't need you to fix their problems. A lot of these women are capable of fixing their own problems. They just need somebody to listen to what the day was about or what their situation was about and how they handle it. You know, we want to fix things all the time, you know, but some of these women are capable of fixing. They just, you know, they want to just tell you how, you know, what happened.

1:24:34 They know you listen to how their day went. Yeah. You know, I've been married 40 years to the same woman, man. Almost 40 years. You know, coming up on 40 years to the same woman, man. And we're going strong. What's the position that you got in when you asked that woman to marry you? To get down on your knee. You got on a bended knee. Nope. That's the immediate. My ears are open. So you're in theory with the emotions, right? You have to not physically bend the knee, but within yourself, you got to bend the knee and kind of listen.

1:25:15 You're not grinning and bearing. You're taking an understanding. But listen, listen, fellas, listen. My situation is totally different from all of that. This woman is a lockbox, a lockbox on emotions because she had to endure all these things. The theory about the suit you guys are not listening you take that as a man all these things y'all are saying, and think about you as a man and that's how she is she's a lockbox you had the key for something right yeah I had the key for something I had a little I got a little bit open but it's like conversations.

1:25:58 When I say I'm more emotional than she is I'm the conversational starter I'm not what's wrong nothing, you looking like that nothing dig in that pocket find the key ring and however many keys you got to go through find that tell your face and your attitude because your face you have to say something wrong yeah it's like you know this approach yeah i think i think a lot of this approach man you know if it's if it looks like they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results you know what i mean a little different yeah you got it Yeah, you just got to, you know, we have to find different ways of trying to communicate.

1:26:38 You know what I mean? And sometimes, you know, it's just not, she's just not ready to open. You know what I'm saying? No matter how hard-hearted you force it, try to force this door open it, sometimes it's just not going to open, man. You know, she's going to open it when she's ready to open it. And you got to let her know, hey, when you're ready to talk about it, man, you know I'm here. Okay, Mark, hold on, hold on. Okay, Mark, I hear what you're saying, brother. But where i am and where i get sometimes is if you start in on the conversation you start the conversation and then in the middle of the conversation you just go left and be like okay i'm done oh it might be it might be painful it might be painful you know it might be painful man i mean you just like you got scars she she might have scars too and it might be painful she doesn't she doesn't you know what we consider a little bit she might consider a lot you know i I didn't put up what I normally do.

1:27:30 It's a piece by piece, man. And it's called patience, man. There it is, right there. I have patience. You got to, man. I mean, I know you wanted at your feet and stuff, man, but in a relationship, sometimes you got to wait. It ain't all about what you want. And I think that's a lot of things wrong. It's what we want as men, man, but you know, that doesn't always work in a relationship. And you know what, man? You hit the nail on the head, and I think you're so right, but it's in our human self. Let's be honest, some of us, not all of us, but some of us in our human selves, we're so impatient that we've become, and Bubba's, this used to be Bubba's phrase, microwave hose.

1:28:19 And what that means, you want everything really, really fast. Bubba used to say that all the time. We're dealing with some microwave hose out here. But anyways, you're right. And I have to humble myself. Let me say that first of all, gentlemen. And again, I want to say thank you. I want to thank everybody for what they're saying, because this is amazing. And you guys are helping me so much. I have to understand. And I think God puts us together with our spouses to teach us something. And that's what he's been talking to me. I know he's in your mind to teach me something.

1:28:59 And I told you, I've been praying and praying and praying and all week. And that's that's what really has been coming to me is he put her in my life to teach me some lessons about myself. She's a she's a mirror that I've been staring at for so long and I couldn't see myself. But then when I married this woman, it was like all my imperfections just kind of fell out in front of me. and I'm facing all of these things and it's like I'm still trying to figure out how to handle them. You got to look inside yourself first. I mean, you kind of said it. You said that looking in the mirror at her when, you know.

1:29:42 Look inside yourself, man. Like I said, go back to the beginning, to where you first started, when you first met her. When you first met her, she had a smile on her face. She was giddy. She was happy. Am I correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was giddy, man. We used to just get in the car and just ride. We ride to Kentucky. We ride to Alabama. when we go we just go sit at a lake and just watch water man let me ask you this you know, and all you guys have women girlfriends wives whatever okay a lot of men that why buy women expensive deals or i got her a car or i bought her a nice fur coat or i bought some red bobbing shoes or a night down the ring or a tennis bracelet let me tell you something old saying golds, a diamond loses the sparkle and gold loses the shine.

1:30:29 Am I correct? Very true. Okay. You know where I started going? No, I guess you are. I will go make my wife at the time. I will go make her a card and go cut her some roses instead of buying them out of the store because when you do something with your own two hands and you write it in your own handwriting and you sign that card or that letter, that changes the whole world of everything in that woman's heart. Yeah, and I get what you said And I guess My wife, she's a beautiful, beautiful woman And she's so different from Every woman I've ever been with Man, when I say she's so different from Every woman, and I'm not talking about in a bad way I'm talking about in a good way, I'm just trying To find this rhythm, But she doesn't even Like me to go out and buy her things She don't like that She doesn't even like it And that's my point, don't buy it Make her a card, if I go here's my wife this is what makes her happy if I went to the store, bought a bunch of fruit and made her a fruit salad she's overjoyed with that, tell her what it's worth I think he's a thousand percent right, it's because you took the time and that's when I was getting that, you did it with your own, hands That's the most valuable gift we can give the other partner in our lives is that time.

1:32:00 It's not the gold. It's not the diamonds. The range of a nut is for us. It's exactly, it's our personal touch. I can't see that. I can see that because as hard as I work and I I'm pulling 14, 12 out of days or something like that and sometimes when I hit the house I'm done and they won't have a conversation and I'm like, I'm just better drained. So yeah, I see what you say, where you get that at. I can see that. You know, on the average, a man is putting about $10,000 a day and a woman speaks about 14,000 words a day.

1:32:42 So when the man gets home from a hard day, he's out of words. Bank account sits there full waiting to talk. That's a lot of times where the domestic situation comes in. It's like she's wanting to vent something like that. Just for telling me about her family, she doesn't want to vent. She just wants to feel valuable and, you're giving her that time and that base and everything and not trying to fix it, it's that's the most precious gift you can give them just different things my god five different things you know start off like i said we now one last time you make a fruit bag a fruit bowl a food salad one last week it was probably sunday it was sunday this sunday but this, kind of came up this whole thing kind of came up probably three to four days ago it kind of came up three to four days ago and it's just been like I just feel like I'm trying to, I've you guys made some valid comments and some valid points I just and I realize now where I because you You're going wrong.

1:34:05 Right. Well, I went wrong. Mm-hmm. And sometimes look within yourself. Because in order to find a solution to a problem, we have to look at that man in the mirror as, OK, where did I go wrong? What did I say wrong? What am I not doing what I used to do? I can't I can't say there's enough. You have to go back to the beginning. But see, in that case of what you're saying, it's what I did. And I get what you I get the premise of what you're saying. But now it's at the point where I have to figure out how to fix what I did. I went back and figured out why we're having this problem with communication is because I at certain points, I wanted to take control of the conversation and I felt like it wasn't going in the manner or the speed I felt like it was going.

1:34:58 So I would blow up and she and somebody said, and that's when the bricks started coming up. That's when the bricks started going up. So now I have to figure out how to bring it because I have changed. It does not happen anymore. And I try to pride myself on staying evenly killed when we're having a discussion or a disagreement. Treatment i try to i try to be evenly killed and i try to put my listening ears on and i try to be at that point but there was a time before when it would just i when the conversation wasn't going in the in the speed or the manner yes mark control it if it wasn't if it wasn't going in in the manner that I thought it was going in, then I take off running.

1:35:53 And now I'm in this place I'm in right now and I'm frustrated, but I don't feel like exploding. I don't yell. I don't, elevate my voice I just try to have a conversation with her because I did listen to her and when she said she didn't like it and and I but in this these last few days I didn't think about that I didn't think about that particular conversation I didn't go back and go through all the clips and all the reels and think about that particular conversation because the point at hand is what I was thinking about, and I've only been reeling over the pointed hand and going through, why is she not? Why is this not?

1:36:44 Why does she feel this way? And I didn't do my due diligence, what I try to always tell people, do your due diligence, and I didn't do my due diligence. And having this conversation with you all just made me do my due diligence. And this is what I want you guys to understand. If you're new here, if you're old here, if you're whatever, there's another me out here somewhere that's going through this. And I didn't think this was going to be my forever because I got faith that God's going to work out my marriage. But there's a young man out there somewhere or a man that may think that whatever they're going through is there forever when tomorrow can be different. Listen, five years ago, I didn't think I'd be where I'm at right now.

1:37:28 Ten years ago, I didn't think I'd be where I'm at right now. But through the power of God and my own belief in myself and my beautiful wife, we're here having this conversation. Men, we don't know how powerful we are in helping each other be better. I mean, y'all just y'all just walked. Y'all just dog walked me through my own situation in a in a nice way. And I respect that. And that's what I always respect. Let's have a real honest man conversation and figure out where we're wrong because we're not always right in this point. Now y'all got me over here trying to figure out how am I going to go upstairs and apologize to this woman? Well, just the same way that you were saying it is.

1:38:10 You know what? Now, just sit down and say, honey, I'm sorry. I apologize. Don't you even got to explain nothing? Just say, honey, I'm sorry. Kiss on the cheek and take your ass back downstairs. careers. And that juncture right then now her mind will start to wander and she may come downstairs, I've tried and it worked for me many times in my marriage you know what I used to do when the kids were going to grandma house or they going to their friend house spending the night or whatever you know what I used to do, I would turn on me some jab music get a bottle of wine sit her down and not say one, damn word there you go right now sip that wine because silence is golden you can hear so much when nothing's being said amen, So you ain't got to learn how to do that. Go up there and get a file, get a chance. And that's it.

1:39:07 That's all you got to do. That's all you got to do. And then, guess what happens after that? Them bricks going to start coming down. It may take a minute, but brick by brick by brick, that wall will start to come down. I'm going to try to bust it down at one time, but then you have a pile of rubber on your hand, you still got to clean up. Man, look, I'm trying to be Hercules. I need this wall down tomorrow. See, that's a problem right there. You try to rush and do it. You want that? Let me get your own thing. My father told me when I started my business. He said, a thousand mile journey begins with a single step. If you rush that journey, running through that journey a thousand miles, you're going to be tired before you even get to starting.

1:39:53 That's good though. He dropped a GM right there. I mean, I respect that. and yeah sometime I see me around Nashville man at the Cigar Lines whatever I'd be out and about but yeah you know you can man you can you'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar, y'all heard all that saying man I mean bro I would take just it don't take a lot just a little bit honey I'm sorry kiss on the cheek do a bout place do left right left going down the stairs oh hell. Oh, for real? I don't know that. You even got to say that you can just go up there, cut your hand, give her a kiss on the forehead, turn around, walk downstairs, and sit at the table. Yep.

1:40:43 Get you a stiff drink, just smoke a cigar, go on the back porch, put some goddamn Kenny G on, and just stare into the light, and just smoke your cigar, have your drink. She'll come and join you up there, too. Yep. You ask me, what was that for? Because I love you. That's all you can say. Oh. Try it. You might like it. That's some good stuff, gentlemen. Yes. I speak from experience. Now, I'm not saying to be saying it. I speak from experience. That's some good stuff, Arthur. I appreciate it. Now, here's the million dollar question. Will you be able to do it?

1:41:26 That's the million dollar question with honey not vinegar exactly, they say you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar yeah well put some money so a vinegar is gonna get sour but honey would never lose its taste there you go can y'all hear me yep, hey Joe I guess he's in the background. I was just going to tell him you know because of your breakdown in communication, hello well we lost you Dave some of those bricks build up between the physical between the couple so I was just going to remind him to take that page 7 out of the Diddy handbook and when all else fails go slap some baby oil on them hands and get to work.

1:42:20 Lord sweet teenage baby hey you gotta work out some of them knots some of them tension knots you work them out communication starts to flow better be like Teddy P rubbing down some hot burning oil, and turn out the lights, But just simple gestures, man, simple gestures. It will get you a long way. Just simple gestures. Well, I thank everybody that's been on the show tonight. Thank everybody that's been in the comments tonight if you didn't get a chance to express yourself. But just know that this Kickback Conversation starts every Friday night at 730.

1:43:00 So if you came in late, try to be with us at the beginning at 730 so you can catch the full effect. Gentlemen, I appreciate all y'all coming in the house tonight. Zane Dang, man, I appreciate you, man. I know I got to you late, but thank you for coming in. We'll try and get you right in the beginning next time. Thank you. Appreciate all your input as well. I really do appreciate it. Gentlemen, I thank you. I thank everybody for allowing me into the group. Very appreciative. Oh, and it ain't going to stop here, Zane. You know I got you in mind for some other things too. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'd like to thank Queena. She sent me an invite to come join this group, man.

1:43:41 Very informative. It's always good to see a bunch of brothers get together and help each other out, man. You know, good, bad, or indifferent. You know, you never know what might change somebody. That may be a single word. You can be feeling down in dumps. You know, whatever the case may be. Smile, man. Say something like that spark back into you, and you feel a whole hell of a lot better, man. So this is always well needed, and God, you know, continue doing what you're doing, gentlemen. Most definitely like Joe said we're working on some things and hopefully we can take this very same group from our audio podcast to a sit down version where we can kick it face to face, absolutely we all get about it don't we.

1:44:23 Everybody lives somewhat close to Nashville. I'm in Nashville. I'm in Nashville. I had to step off for a minute, fellas. I'm sorry about that. But the woman of the hour, she's been gone since we've been doing this the whole time. She wanted to go do groceries and things like that. And she texted me. She was like, can you come help me? And I was like, where are you? And the next thing you know, I had a knock at the door. So I had to go grab the groceries. but I'm going to have that conversation with her later on about the whole situation. Not a conversation. Just piss on the cheek. I love you. And leave it at that, at that, at that juncture, help her with the grocery.

1:45:04 I brought the grocery, kiss on the cheek. I love you. And leave it at Johnson. Go get you a nice step bourbon. Sit on the back porch. Yeah, you know, I'm going to sit on my back porch. Hey man, listen, I ain't just, I ain't knew there's no truth to this. That's where all the best thinking goes. Right, right. She's out in the backyard. I put her tent up for her. She got her tablet. She got her cigar. She got her coffee. She's sitting on the back porch right now in her tent. Mind her own damn business. Right, right, right. Jimmo, you're right. That's where the best thing happens, man. It's where a lot of prayers have been sent up and a lot of conversations have been had, man. Absolutely.

1:45:47 My back patio is where my grill is, my chair, and my personal time. Exactly. And they invite her to that problem. You ain't got a thing, baby. You sit back down. You sink your bourbon. Kiss on a chick again. I love you. That's it. Right, man. Listen, I don't know how much Dave told you guys, but we do this every Friday night at 730, man. Every night at 730. And I want all you guys to come back. I don't want you to promise because I know things happen in life, But I want you guys to come back next Friday and Friday. Every Friday, you can come back and we can have this amazing conversation.

1:46:30 Man, it's always needed because everybody brings a different perspective to the table. And just like I asked the question tonight and everybody gave me their different answer to the question. It was amazing. And you guys have helped me so much because to be honest and transparent, it's like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders right now, man. Use the community. That's it. That's it. Yeah. You know, the old word was it takes a village. We're not children. You got to use the community. Use it. OK, OK, OK. Use the community. I got you. I got your concept.

1:47:11 Use the community. We're not children. Use the community. I got it. Man, listen, that is amazing. Use the community. This is what it was tonight, but, most nights, man, we just talk about whatever. Somebody threw out a topic and we just talk about whatever, man. But I feel like men needed a place where we could just come and have these type of conversations. Did you see there was no real world issues? And what I mean by that is what you see on the news and what you see on social media. We could talk about that all day long, but is that really going to help the next brother get to where he needs to be at?

1:47:56 Not on the inside. No, that's the outside. Absolutely. Exactly. So that's, so having real, man, I've, I've cried about three times over here. Y'all probably didn't know it, but I've probably cried about three times over here because I have had to dig so deep inside myself to understand where, and I've been to that point in the road, but through what was going on right now, I'd forgotten. And I really didn't think about the fact that it was me in my haste that has created this dilemma that I'm facing.

1:48:42 I have created my own infliction and realizing that I've created my own infliction. Now I'm to a point where I, now I feel, I don't know if the word is sorry for her or anything, don't know really the words to express how I feel for my wife right now. I really would just, in honesty, to me, I just want to go hug her and just kiss her and just say I'm sorry a thousand times. That's it right there. It's not no haste. Don't feel sorry for yourself. Don't feel as if you have to feel sorry for her. Just go ahead and do what you have to do. Tell her you love her.

1:49:28 Grab that cigar, grab the bourbon, sit on the porch. If she comes down, she comes down, but she's got that thought in her mind that. He said the right words and that's what I needed to hear. Something so small can go a long way. That's what Jesus said about planting the mustard seed. Right. They told the mustard seed, man. Man, yeah, it is amazing. But fellas, this show runs for two hours and we've got five minutes left. Again five minutes I'm back oh everybody's still here yeah we got we got five and a half minutes left I don't know where you went to Mark, I go on vacation tomorrow I'm going to Sedona with my cousin she got this timeshare and she invited us out there man so we're she called to make sure I was packed up and everything man so I fly out about 5 o'clock tomorrow morning so I had to go.

1:50:38 Going to Cali I'm from Cali oh I was facing that though, Oh, you're my home. You're my stupid ground, man. We're going to Palm Springs and she lives in Banning and then we're going to drive out to Arizona and spend the week out there in her timeshare. Out there in that desert. Yeah, man. I was fishing down there in Fort Ord, Seaside, Monterey. I was trying to get there. I was trying to get to Fort Ord. I got family in Fort Ord. No, I got family in Travis Air Force Base. She's in Travis, I think. Yeah, Fort Ord is subdivision now. Yeah. Yeah. OK, I didn't want to take up the five minutes. I'm I'm I'm I'm listening.

1:51:18 No, I know. I know. I got you. But listen, I was just saying before you when you came back in, I was just I was just thanking everybody for the advice and all they did. And and just helping me understand where I'm at with the situation and that I created this monster that I'm trying now have to combat and just saying that, you know, these conversations are needed. People, we need to, as I say, everybody needs to check in every now and then. And if we can do that in a respectful manner, then it's all worth it. And I was saying it takes a village. And then Zane said, no, you got to use the community because we're not children. And that's what this is. It's a community. You got to use the community.

1:52:02 And you guys were the community that I use tonight to understand where I'm at and how I need to fix the thing that I've created. Like a monster. That's just emotion. That's why I said that. You didn't hear me say monster. I said the thing that I created. We use the proper terminology, man. You know, we got to work on our terminology. Yes, yes. That's the key. That's the go-getter, man. You know, I mean, because we you know, our words are who we are, man. You know what I'm saying? And we start using these negative words, man. We become a negative person, man. Right. And I got I got what you said earlier about labeling myself when I'm trying to do this over here. And I've been very bad at that.

1:52:47 I've I've I've been bad at that because I think it was just it was something I adapted a long time ago in my in one of my seasons. Because you know we go through up seasons and down seasons and in one of my seasons i adapted that self-mutilation and i ain't talk and i'm not talking about anything physical i'm talking about self-mutilation coming from my tongue towards myself deprecation self-deprecation okay if that's what you want to call it but i am and i am in an up season and my life is changed and i am a totally different person. And this journey that I'm on right now is one of empowerment and just betterment for me and my community.

1:53:39 So I've had other friends that be like, man, you've got to change the words that you say about yourself because it's power. And I'm like, you know, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you got to be who you want to be and who you know you are. Yeah. And if it's a positive thing, man, you got to use positive adjectives, man, about yourself, man. I mean, you can't, you know, you got to start there. You know, you're not trying to fix her. You're trying to fix you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? You know, and you have to start fixing you and, you know, you find a thing that you think is wrong with you and you fix those. And we got to start with, you know, we put a positive foot forward.

1:54:21 Right, right. You know what I mean? And we got to. Yeah. As you run the road. I mean, I got baby. You're going to figure this out, man. You know, we here. As you run the road. As you run the road. That your partner, she's going to pick up her paddle and start helping out as well. Yeah, man. You know, when people start seeing people, you know, do better, they usually get on board, man. You know what I'm saying? It gives them a reason to understand and to be more open as well. You know, hey, I'm trying to be real with myself, you know, and that makes people want to be real with themselves. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Fellas, I love everybody. 7.30 next Friday. Be here. Be square.

1:55:04 We need each other. We need this community. We are the kickback. I'll see you guys next week. Have a great weekend, fellas, man. Y'all was good with hearing that, fellas. My gentlemen, thank y'all for my voice, man. It's always great. Y'all have a great good time. You say fuck this. It's real on the battlefield. Yeah. Music.