The Kickback: Fathers, Survival Mode, and the Burden of Masculinity

0:00 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Kickback. I am your host, The Dude. I want to start off by saying I apologize to everyone from last week. It was human error. Charging to my heart, not my head. It was human error. Running around, doing things, and just forgot. I had so much going on that I forgot that I had a show. So I apologize, and I hope everyone forgives me, but we're back. We're here. Great conversation with some great men. Welcome to The Kickback. No, it's been like years, though. Like 30 years that they didn't drive.

0:47 I'm sorry. Where his parents went wrong. Something wrong somewhere because like a lot of these, they feel sure because i'm your child i'm entitled i don't have to do nothing extra i don't have to do nothing more than what i need to do, you're supposed to give it to me how do we get to that how do we get to a place where because we carry the same last name, you're supposed to give me whatever I want.

1:31 Right. Right. Right. I think we all wish we had a version of the man that we are when we were boys. I think we wish we had that. And I think that's the reason why our children are the way they are, is because the version of us that we are, we wish we had as a parent. And so I'm not saying that we're wrong or they were wrong. Our parents were simply in a different, I'm not talking about this, but I said, our parents was in a different version of survival mode than we are.

2:12 Everybody's in survival mode, but it looks different to everybody. It looks totally different to everybody. Everybody's version of survival mode looks different. Whether it's I'm saving money or disciplining this way or living this way, everybody's version of survival looks different. But at the same hand, even with all those different versions of survival, we're still coming out with the same resorts with our children. Not everybody's children are like this, but the vast majority of the children have this mindset.

2:53 It's like I was talking to one of my co-workers today and she was saying her 17, 17, 18 year old son, he's about to graduate this year. And I think she said he's my neurodivergent son. He's all he. Was neurodivergent. I think it's what she said. Yeah. But what she described was she said he'll she will hear him in his room playing video games, talking to the people on the video games. But when she calls him out of the room, she can barely get him to say anything. And so now he's a senior in high school and he has friends that want to hang out with him.

3:35 And one of his friends has got a car and his friend showed up to the house. It was like, hey, let's go hang out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he came out and was like you're gonna send me out into the world with these people I don't want to go out into this world and she was like listen you're getting out of this house today, you finna go out with your friends you're not finna send him here on this video your friend is here to pick you up she said I vetted the little boy you know asking questions talk to him whatever, but she was like and he's a he's a good boy I know his mama blah blah blah blah blah, and so I know my son will be okay and I had to make my son go with his friends and hang out, right okay okay, what oh um Trayvon.

4:34 Right, and I told him. You're right You're right And Andrew would be great for that scene I think you would be great for that scene But like he said when you rock Ruse, No No, it's not. No, no, stop vaccinating the kids. Stop vaccinating the children. Vaccines are horrible.

5:14 Let's take away the education department. Department of Education, let's take that away. That seems more suitable. You talking about, what her name is? You talking about her? She said, from bell to bell, no. How did a commercial go? No posting from bell to bell. Let's take phones out of school. From bell to bell, no posting. Okay. Right. But see, what I'm doing is what they're doing. You just use right.

5:58 When you use what is said and written in front of them, turn left and bring up something else. Right you knew how I was going with that thank you sir may I have some more, thank you sir can I have some more porridge, but yeah, but how many people are really going to honestly stand up in front of a group of people and say that Because it's...

6:46 Yes. Yes, it is true. Right. Right. Yes. Yes. Was it his grandpa or was it his father? Right. Got, you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. We all got a story we all got a story, some of us know how to some of us know how to get booked out, sounds like somebody's outside they got some good old crickets in the backyard, we were just talking I started out the conversation talking about, being a father and being a man and now we carry all of this burden but we're not celebrated for it I say I say being a father and, being a man and being a father comes with so much burden, why are we not celebrated for it, but that's what I'm saying we're the beast of burden we're the burden carried, you know We suffer in silence, but we create victories that everybody can see.

8:20 But we're... Yeah. Right. Okay. Oh. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. I can't from my perspective, I can't in the marriage I'm in now in the marriage I'm in now being married to a hyper independent woman that doesn't exist I cannot she will not let me, let me I'm not meaning it in a bad way but she will not carry all the burden and, oh man, Man, I drugged a spot.

9:19 I dragged the swamp. I kissed a lot of people. So, well, if I wouldn't have met her, I think I would have drained the swamp and just drunk all the water. You're right. I totally agree. Right. But I agree with your first statement. We really don't want what we're looking for. And a lot of us can't be honest about that. A lot of us cannot be honest with ourselves. And I think at the bottom line of all of it, that statement, we can't be honest with ourselves, applies across the board when it comes to a lot of situations.

10:01 And it's not just a man thing. I think that's a human thing. Because, Mark, I've told you, I see the world similar to the way you see the world, and I have been honest with myself about a lot of things now because I've gotten the revelation on the other side of life, and I don't like the way the world looks sometimes. It's like I was having a conversation with my wife tonight, and it's a situation that's happening with me and my ex-wife. And I really would like that honest conversation with her, but I told my wife tonight I said if I was to have a real if I really told this woman how I felt about the situation she'd be ready to fight me and I was, like and I'm like I cannot be honest with her because she cannot take accountability for her role and what is happening right now.

11:09 Going on with me i'm breaking out i don't know why I. Don't know. truth i totally agree i totally agree right comfortability, comfortability people are afraid to step outside of their comfort zone. Right we take we go ahead he was a hustler, but listen though on that on that point if you read some of the financial old financial literacy they talk about, the life of a drug dealer versus the life of a corporate mate.

12:03 And what they say is a drug dealer has more foresight than most businessmen. The whole point. That's the whole point. He is a businessman, but he has more foresight than a college-educated businessman because here's the thing. You have to illegally acquire product. You have to sort out your clientele, and then you have to keep said product hidden so you don't get caught with it and convicted. So you have to mastermind all of these things. You have to acquire it you have to you have to keep it you know stocked up you it's all these things and he sees the foreseeable future okay if i, a customer comes in and it's not a customer that normally comes in i'm not gonna sell to you because i don't know you, right so it.

13:06 But we were talking about foresight and i think what you were saying some people just stand dreamers only only get good sleep but the protagonist, the person who follows through but i think a lot of a lot of protagonists come from their environment the way they grew up, how they had to strategically do things and maneuver through life. You know, you had to think five, six, seven steps ahead because you might have not ate. And not everybody might have not ate. Or you knew that your grades wasn't good, so you knew you had to figure out how to get in the house, slide your report card on the table so your daddy can sign it.

13:47 You go in the room, you go take your shower, get in the bed, and try to sleep before they get to that report card. Thank you. Right. That may have been the wrong example, but okay, that was the wrong example. Okay. So, my bad. Okay. So you figure out, okay, today's Friday, tomorrow's Saturday. So today, while you were at school you figured out you wanted to go see your friend on the other side of town tomorrow so you're thinking five steps ahead on how you gonna be able to convince your mom or dad whoever give you some money and how you're going to get to said friend on the other side of town you understand what i'm saying yes, yes exactly exactly yes all right right.

14:57 And I don't know if you were. I talked about everybody lives in that in a in their own version of survival mode. Yeah, I'm talking about the entire spectrum. Yeah. Yes. If you you have to have a level of honesty within yourself, you have to you have to have a level of honesty within yourself. And like you said, everybody's not ready to be that honest with themselves. And as I say it time and time again, the first lie is told inside of your brain. The first lie, before it even comes out your mouth, the first lie is told inside your brain. And then once it hits your lips, you're trying to convince the rest of the world of the lie that you've convinced yourself of.

15:40 No, I mean, your lived reality is your reality. But nine times out of ten, okay, if I walked up to you and said, Mark, how are you today? How are you feeling today? Are you going to tell me the truth or in your mind, you're going to come up with an answer, man? Right. Right. Why in your mind Why is it the first thought in your mind That people really don't care about how you feel.

16:31 And have you ever thought about that's a trauma response do you really care about how i feel or, here's here's what i'm saying when you respond with are you just being courteous or do you really care how i feel do you not feel like that's a trauma response to someone making you making you feel like the way you feel did not matter, right right but that's the point that's the point i'm trying to make you don't know how sincere that person really is, but your trauma response makes you feel like, hell, don't look at me. Right.

17:15 Well, it does not mean that you, I'm not saying that you're in a trauma, that this is where we miss it. Saying that you're in a traumatic situation right now. I'm just saying it could have been somebody you really cared about in your life. Your dad. And I'm just, I'm not saying this is truth. I'm just giving some examples. It could have been your dad. It could have been a teacher. It could have been a real son. It could have been anybody that told you, man, I don't give a damn about your feelings, or they made you feel like they didn't care about your father. It's like, yeah.

17:57 Right. And see, I get what you're saying. So this is where I'm leading down this path is this. And this is what I've been explaining to my wife, because my wife is always talking about that's a childhood trauma. That's a childhood trauma. You know where most of the traumas I have at 46 come from? Being an adult. Being an adult I've got more wounds being an adult male in this world than I ever got being a child, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions is because for me I'm trying to get an understanding of why men have, such responses to questions like hey brother how you feeling today and your response And nothing wrong with your response, because I've gotten that a lot of times.

18:48 But we don't think as men that someone is being truly sincere when they ask that question. Because I ask that question to men, and they look at me, and they process the question. And a lot of times I get, bro, I'm okay, I'm good. But then later on, you come to find out that that brother wasn't actually good in that moment. But his pride or bravado or whatever the case may be in that moment would not let him open up and be honest that something was going on. Right now hold on hold on real quick hold on real quick, hold your question now that goes back to the original topic talking about fathers and remember how we were talking about how, we got ourselves into this we got ourselves into this situation because at some point in our lives as quote unquote men we felt like we couldn't be less masculine so we had to tell our wives go sit down and we we're gonna take on all of this stuff and that's how a lot of us wind up like you said mark in the wheelchairs or, bedridden or something like that, now what's up brother what's your question.

20:17 Yeah but hold on okay get your thoughts together real quick let me give you all an example of something okay let me give you all an example of something real quick so, me and the wife went on vacation right and she was taping me doing something another and i was just being me and just having a good time and having fun and just being Joe, just being Joe. I'm going to say Joe, not the dude, because dude is the host of the show, but Joe is the man that I am. I'm Joe. So I was just being me or whatever. She ran into a male friend of hers and he said, what's up with your husband? The way he was moving is kind of questionable. He a little soft or something. Yeah, he called me suspect. And my wife, being my wife defending, she said, that's just my husband being my husband.

21:04 Husband he's a man he takes care of he takes care of his household he does what he's supposed to do that's just him having fun but yeah another man another man called me suspect. Right right come on with me no say it that's the whole point right yes sir yes sir, right right exactly right right, they ready to defend their positions as soon as they walk in the room, yes yes yes, yes sir that is that is right there that is right there yes he's talking about slave trade he's talking about the slave trade.

22:18 True very true now how does all of this play into masculinity and fatherhood, because we talked about how we have created our own downward spiral as men we've become so prideful that, we've set our partners down and put on, as Bubba said, I'm going to put on this armor and I'm going to carry everything on my back.

23:00 That's the truth I hear we were called to protect right that is that's how, what Bubba said is how we loop all of this back together and I don't think Mark we talk about this all the time you guys have hit on it tonight you think five or six steps ahead a lot of people don't think that way and a lot of people cannot be honest. I'm just roping everything together because we finna get out of here in about five minutes, but I'm just roping everything together. We as people have not been, in my opinion, completely honest with ourselves. Some of us have.

23:44 Mark, like Bubba said, you're an entity, sir. You are an entity. I am headed towards the space of being an entity because, I can totally understand and feel what you said. Like Bubba said earlier, I'm going to co-sign on everything you said. And everything you said tonight, I co-signed with. I didn't disagree with one thing you said tonight. Everything you said was on point. But here's the baseline about all of this. We have been misled as a race of people. And I ain't say no color, a race of people that masculinity defines who we are. It's a part of us. But like I said, in the example that I gave you, I'm Joe and I'm comfortable being Joe.

24:28 Just like Bubba said about his daddy. Hey, you can call me. I get called ma'am. I've been called ma'am a couple of times. I'll be talking to some of my female coworkers. They say, girl, you know what I mean? And I'd be like, yep, I know what you mean. But that doesn't mean that I'm gay or anything. But I'm comfortable with who I am. I've been Joe with a penis for 46 years I know what it's used for and I know what it represents but talk, Like Dave said, we have gotten to a point of toxic masculinity, and the toxic masculinity has been what has been defining us as a people, a gender for years.

25:09 Toxic masculinity is what has defined us as a people for years, and we need to get away from that. He said ain't nothing else to be said that was wrapped up in a tight little boat listen listen, listen listen the way i describe this place and i tell people all the time and i don't want y'all to take it the wrong way but i describe this place all the time is it's anti-church but what i mean by that it is not church leading but god is always in it God is always first and foremost in this.

25:57 God gave me this idea. And like y'all talked about a dream and all of those things. I had dreams. I had visions. I had all of that. But I had the foresight to make it work. And we're here. And I thank all of you all every day. Man, I'm getting to it. If you give me a moment, I'm getting there. Hey, what's up, baby? You want me to accept it? All right, y'all give me a minute. Y'all give me a minute. I'm going to go out and come back in.