The Kickback: Fathers, Survival Mode, and the Burden of Masculinity

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Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Kickback. I am your host, The Dude.

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I want to start off by saying I apologize to everyone from last week. It was human error.

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Charging to my heart, not my head.

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It was human error.

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Running around, doing things, and just forgot.

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I had so much going on that I forgot that I had a show.

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So I apologize, and I hope everyone forgives me, but we're back.

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We're here. Great conversation with some great men. Welcome to The Kickback.

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No, it's been like years, though. Like 30 years that they didn't drive.

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I'm sorry.

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Where his parents went wrong.

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Something wrong somewhere because like a lot of these,

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they feel sure because i'm your child i'm entitled i don't have to do nothing

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extra i don't have to do nothing more than what i need to do,

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you're supposed to give it to me how do we get to that how do we get to a place

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where because we carry the same last name, you're supposed to give me whatever I want.

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Right. Right.

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Right.

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I think we all wish we had a version of the man that we are when we were boys.

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I think we wish we had that.

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And I think that's the reason why our children are the way they are,

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is because the version of us that we are, we wish we had as a parent.

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And so I'm not saying that we're wrong or they were wrong.

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Our parents were simply in a different, I'm not talking about this,

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but I said, our parents was in a different version of survival mode than we are.

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Everybody's in survival mode, but it looks different to everybody.

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It looks totally different to everybody.

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Everybody's version of survival mode looks different. Whether it's I'm saving

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money or disciplining this way or living this way, everybody's version of survival looks different.

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But at the same hand, even with all those different versions of survival,

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we're still coming out with the same resorts with our children.

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Not everybody's children are like this, but the vast majority of the children have this mindset.

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It's like I was talking to one of my co-workers today and she was saying her

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17, 17, 18 year old son, he's about to graduate this year.

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And I think she said he's my neurodivergent son. He's all he.

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Was neurodivergent. I think it's what she said.

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Yeah. But what she described was she said he'll she will hear him in his room

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playing video games, talking to the people on the video games.

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But when she calls him out of the room, she can barely get him to say anything.

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And so now he's a senior in high school and he has friends that want to hang out with him.

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And one of his friends has got a car and his friend showed up to the house.

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It was like, hey, let's go hang out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And he came out and was like you're gonna send me out into the world with these

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people I don't want to go out into this world and she was like listen you're

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getting out of this house today,

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you finna go out with your friends you're not finna send him here on this video

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your friend is here to pick you up she said I vetted the little boy you know

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asking questions talk to him whatever,

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but she was like and he's a he's a good boy I know his mama blah blah blah blah blah,

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and so I know my son will be okay and I had to make my son go with his friends and hang out,

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right okay okay,

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what oh um Trayvon.

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Right, and I told him.

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You're right You're right And Andrew would be great for that scene I think you

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would be great for that scene But like he said when you rock Ruse,

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No No, it's not.

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No, no, stop vaccinating the kids. Stop vaccinating the children.

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Vaccines are horrible.

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Let's take away the education department. Department of Education, let's take that away.

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That seems more suitable.

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You talking about, what her name is? You talking about her?

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She said, from bell to bell, no. How did a commercial go?

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No posting from bell to bell.

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Let's take phones out of school.

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From bell to bell, no posting. Okay.

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Right. But see, what I'm doing is what they're doing. You just use right.

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When you use what is said and written in front of them, turn left and bring up something else.

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Right you knew how I was going with that thank you sir may I have some more,

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thank you sir can I have some more porridge,

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but yeah,

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but how many people are really going to honestly stand up in front of a group

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of people and say that Because it's...

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Yes. Yes, it is true. Right. Right. Yes.

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Yes.

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Was it his grandpa or was it his father?

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Right. Got,

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you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

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We all got a story we all got a story,

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some of us know how to some of us know how to get booked out,

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sounds like somebody's outside they got some good old crickets in the backyard,

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we were just talking I started out the conversation talking about,

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being a father and being a man and now we carry all of this burden but we're

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not celebrated for it I say I say being a father and,

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being a man and being a father comes with so much burden, why are we not celebrated for it,

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but that's what I'm saying we're the beast of burden we're the burden carried,

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you know We suffer in silence, but we create victories that everybody can see.

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But we're... Yeah. Right.

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Okay. Oh. Shit.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. I can't from my perspective,

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I can't in the marriage I'm in now in the marriage I'm in now being married

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to a hyper independent woman that doesn't exist I cannot she will not let me,

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let me I'm not meaning it in a bad way but she will not carry all the burden and,

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oh man,

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Man, I drugged a spot.

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I dragged the swamp. I kissed a lot of people. So, well,

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if I wouldn't have met her, I think I would have drained the swamp and just drunk all the water.

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You're right. I totally agree. Right. But I agree with your first statement.

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We really don't want what we're looking for. And a lot of us can't be honest about that.

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A lot of us cannot be honest with ourselves. And I think at the bottom line

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of all of it, that statement, we can't be honest with ourselves,

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applies across the board when it comes to a lot of situations.

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And it's not just a man thing. I think that's a human thing.

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Because, Mark, I've told you, I see the world similar to the way you see the

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world, and I have been honest with myself about a lot of things now because

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I've gotten the revelation on the other side of life,

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and I don't like the way the world looks sometimes.

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It's like I was having a conversation with my wife tonight, and it's a situation

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that's happening with me and my ex-wife.

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And I really would like that honest conversation with her,

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but I told my wife tonight I said if I was to have a real if I really told this

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woman how I felt about the situation she'd be ready to fight me and I was,

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like and I'm like I cannot be honest with her because she cannot take accountability

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for her role and what is happening right now.

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Going on with me i'm breaking out i don't know why I.

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Don't know. truth i totally agree i totally agree right comfortability,

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comfortability people are afraid to step outside of their comfort zone.

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Right we take we go ahead he was a hustler,

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but listen though on that on that point if you read some of the financial old

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financial literacy they talk about,

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the life of a drug dealer versus the life of a corporate mate.

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And what they say is a drug dealer has more foresight than most businessmen.

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The whole point. That's the whole point. He is a businessman,

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but he has more foresight than a college-educated businessman because here's the thing.

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You have to illegally acquire product.

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You have to sort out your clientele, and then you have to keep said product

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hidden so you don't get caught with it and convicted.

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So you have to mastermind all of these things.

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You have to acquire it you have to you have to keep it you know stocked up you

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it's all these things and he sees the foreseeable future okay if i,

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a customer comes in and it's not a customer that normally comes in i'm not gonna

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sell to you because i don't know you,

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right so it.

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But we were talking about foresight and i think what you were saying some people

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just stand dreamers only only get good sleep but the protagonist,

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the person who follows through but i think a lot of a lot of protagonists come

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from their environment the way they grew up,

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how they had to strategically do things and maneuver through life.

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You know, you had to think five, six, seven steps ahead because you might have not ate.

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And not everybody might have not ate. Or you knew that your grades wasn't good,

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so you knew you had to figure out how to get in the house, slide your report

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card on the table so your daddy can sign it.

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You go in the room, you go take your shower, get in the bed,

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and try to sleep before they get to that report card. Thank you.

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Right.

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That may have been the wrong example, but okay, that was the wrong example. Okay. So,

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my bad.

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Okay. So you figure out, okay, today's Friday, tomorrow's Saturday.

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So today, while you were at school you figured out you wanted to go see your

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friend on the other side of town tomorrow so you're thinking five steps ahead

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on how you gonna be able to convince your mom or dad whoever give you some money

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and how you're going to get

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to said friend on the other side of town you understand what i'm saying yes,

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yes exactly exactly yes all right right.

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And I don't know if you were. I talked about everybody lives in that in a in

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their own version of survival mode.

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Yeah, I'm talking about the entire spectrum. Yeah. Yes.

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If you you have to have a level of honesty within yourself, you have to you

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have to have a level of honesty within yourself. And like you said,

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everybody's not ready to be that honest with themselves.

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And as I say it time and time again, the first lie is told inside of your brain.

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The first lie, before it even comes out your mouth, the first lie is told inside your brain.

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And then once it hits your lips, you're trying to convince the rest of the world

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of the lie that you've convinced yourself of.

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No, I mean, your lived reality is your reality. But nine times out of ten,

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okay, if I walked up to you and said, Mark, how are you today?

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How are you feeling today? Are you going to tell me the truth or in your mind,

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you're going to come up with an answer, man? Right.

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Right.

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Why in your mind Why is it the first thought in your mind That people really

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don't care about how you feel.

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And have you ever thought about that's a trauma response do you really care about how i feel or,

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here's here's what i'm saying when you respond with are you just being courteous

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or do you really care how i feel do you not feel like that's a trauma response

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to someone making you making you feel like the way you feel did not matter,

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right right but that's the point that's the point i'm trying to make you don't

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know how sincere that person really is, but your trauma response makes you feel

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like, hell, don't look at me. Right.

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Well, it does not mean that you, I'm not saying that you're in a trauma,

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that this is where we miss it.

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Saying that you're in a traumatic situation right now.

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I'm just saying it could have been somebody you really cared about in your life.

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Your dad. And I'm just, I'm not saying this is truth. I'm just giving some examples.

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It could have been your dad. It could have been a teacher. It could have been a real son.

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It could have been anybody that told you, man, I don't give a damn about your

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feelings, or they made you feel like they didn't care about your father. It's like, yeah.

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Right. And see, I get what you're saying. So this is where I'm leading down

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this path is this. And this is what I've been explaining to my wife,

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because my wife is always talking about that's a childhood trauma.

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That's a childhood trauma.

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You know where most of the traumas I have at 46 come from? Being an adult.

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Being an adult I've got more wounds being an adult male in this world than I ever got being a child,

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that's the reason why I'm asking these questions is because for me I'm trying

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to get an understanding of why men have,

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such responses to questions like hey brother how you feeling today and your

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response And nothing wrong with your response, because I've gotten that a lot of times.

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But we don't think as men that someone is being truly sincere when they ask

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that question. Because I ask that question to men, and they look at me,

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and they process the question.

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And a lot of times I get, bro, I'm okay, I'm good.

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But then later on, you come to find out that that brother wasn't actually good in that moment.

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But his pride or bravado or whatever the case may be in that moment would not

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let him open up and be honest that something was going on.

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Right now hold on hold on real quick hold on real quick,

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hold your question now that goes back to the original topic talking about fathers

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and remember how we were talking about how,

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we got ourselves into this we got ourselves into this situation

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because at some point in our lives as quote unquote men

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we felt like we couldn't be less masculine so we had to tell our wives go sit

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down and we we're gonna take on all of this stuff and that's how a lot of us

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wind up like you said mark in the wheelchairs or,

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bedridden or something like that,

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now what's up brother what's your question.

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Yeah but hold on okay get your thoughts together real quick let me give you

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all an example of something okay let me give you all an example of something real quick so,

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me and the wife went on vacation right and she was taping me doing something

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another and i was just being me and just having a good time and having fun and

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just being Joe, just being Joe.

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I'm going to say Joe, not the dude, because dude is the host of the show,

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but Joe is the man that I am. I'm Joe.

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So I was just being me or whatever. She ran into a male friend of hers and he

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said, what's up with your husband?

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The way he was moving is kind of questionable. He a little soft or something.

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Yeah, he called me suspect. And my wife, being my wife defending,

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she said, that's just my husband being my husband.

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Husband he's a man he takes care of he takes care of his household he does what

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he's supposed to do that's just him having fun but yeah another man another man called me suspect.

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Right right come on with me no say it that's the whole point right yes sir yes sir,

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right right exactly right right,

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they ready to defend their positions as soon as they walk in the room,

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yes yes yes,

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yes sir that is that is right there that is right there yes he's talking about

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slave trade he's talking about the slave trade.

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True very true now how does all of this play into masculinity and fatherhood,

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because we talked about how we

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have created our own downward spiral as men we've become so prideful that,

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we've set our partners down and put on, as Bubba said, I'm going to put on this

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armor and I'm going to carry everything on my back.

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That's the truth I hear we were called to protect right that is that's how,

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what Bubba said is how we loop all of this back together and I don't think Mark

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we talk about this all the time

00:23:20.493 --> 00:23:25.324
you guys have hit on it tonight you think five or six steps ahead a lot of people

00:23:25.324 --> 00:23:28.714
don't think that way and a lot of people cannot be honest.

00:23:28.714 --> 00:23:31.264
I'm just roping everything together because we finna get out of here in about

00:23:31.264 --> 00:23:34.001
five minutes, but I'm just roping everything together.

00:23:34.553 --> 00:23:43.510
We as people have not been, in my opinion, completely honest with ourselves. Some of us have.

00:23:44.148 --> 00:23:47.080
Mark, like Bubba said, you're an entity, sir.

00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:52.364
You are an entity. I am headed towards the space of being an entity because,

00:23:52.904 --> 00:23:55.044
I can totally understand and feel what you said.

00:23:55.044 --> 00:23:58.064
Like Bubba said earlier, I'm going to co-sign on everything you said.

00:23:58.064 --> 00:24:02.404
And everything you said tonight, I co-signed with. I didn't disagree with one

00:24:02.404 --> 00:24:05.389
thing you said tonight. Everything you said was on point.

00:24:05.795 --> 00:24:08.425
But here's the baseline about all of this.

00:24:09.144 --> 00:24:13.602
We have been misled as a race of people.

00:24:13.817 --> 00:24:21.636
And I ain't say no color, a race of people that masculinity defines who we are. It's a part of us.

00:24:22.297 --> 00:24:28.235
But like I said, in the example that I gave you, I'm Joe and I'm comfortable being Joe.

00:24:28.491 --> 00:24:30.546
Just like Bubba said about his daddy.

00:24:31.213 --> 00:24:34.644
Hey, you can call me. I get called ma'am. I've been called ma'am a couple of

00:24:34.644 --> 00:24:37.574
times. I'll be talking to some of my female coworkers. They say,

00:24:37.574 --> 00:24:40.646
girl, you know what I mean? And I'd be like, yep, I know what you mean.

00:24:41.012 --> 00:24:45.592
But that doesn't mean that I'm gay or anything. But I'm comfortable with who I am.

00:24:45.882 --> 00:24:51.894
I've been Joe with a penis for 46 years I know what it's used for and I know

00:24:51.894 --> 00:24:54.553
what it represents but talk,

00:24:55.108 --> 00:25:00.461
Like Dave said, we have gotten to a point of toxic masculinity,

00:25:00.889 --> 00:25:09.588
and the toxic masculinity has been what has been defining us as a people, a gender for years.

00:25:09.588 --> 00:25:15.663
Toxic masculinity is what has defined us as a people for years,

00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:17.479
and we need to get away from that.

00:25:29.808 --> 00:25:36.553
He said ain't nothing else to be said that was wrapped up in a tight little boat listen listen,

00:25:37.648 --> 00:25:43.278
listen listen the way i describe this place and i tell people all the time and

00:25:43.278 --> 00:25:46.088
i don't want y'all to take it the wrong way but i describe this place all the

00:25:46.088 --> 00:25:50.795
time is it's anti-church but what i mean by that it is not

00:25:51.161 --> 00:25:57.105
church leading but god is always in it God is always first and foremost in this.

00:25:57.570 --> 00:25:59.607
God gave me this idea.

00:26:00.141 --> 00:26:03.368
And like y'all talked about a dream and all of those things.

00:26:03.688 --> 00:26:09.348
I had dreams. I had visions. I had all of that. But I had the foresight to make it work.

00:26:10.493 --> 00:26:14.848
And we're here. And I thank all of you all every day.

00:26:18.052 --> 00:26:22.063
Man, I'm getting to it. If you give me a moment, I'm getting there.

00:26:23.908 --> 00:26:29.388
Hey, what's up, baby? You want me to accept it? All right, y'all give me a minute.

00:26:29.388 --> 00:26:31.996
Y'all give me a minute. I'm going to go out and come back in.